Plug-in hybrids generate buzz in San Jose

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by SRX7697

how much does a conversion cost?

Conversion of a Toyota Prius will run you $11,000.
Saw it on the local news last nite.

The guy who they interviewed had converted his Prius, and he said he was running about 85 mpg.

Originally Posted by Beau

Would more Nuclear power plants actually help drop energy costs? Or do they require a lot of overhead to run?

Who knows. What are the energy costs in France?

Nuclear power provides clean energy and can cost more to build than a coal plant. But they provide more energy and ultimately can be less radioactive than coal plants, as coal can have minute quantities of uranium.

The US hasn't built a nuclear plant in decades, and it's about time we do.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by rd66

What is the point of a plug-in... in the long run? You get great fuel economy! You take the car home and plug it in for 8 hours, your electric bill goes through the roof, the power companies need to mine and burn more fossil fuels (which is contributing to global warming) to create more electricity. AND lithium ion batteries DO have a life span which means they will have to be replaced, unlike the weaker Nmh batteries. It may not be a win-win. More like a win- lose

It's not necessarily true that your electric bill will 'go through the roof'. It's certain to increase but if you have a 40 mi RT commute in a Cobalt now you're spending

Home electricity + 1.0-1.5 gal of gasoline or $4 to $6 per day on gas.
Depending on your electricity rate you might pay $2 to $3 per day extra on charging at home. IOW your outlay for transportation would be half of what it is now.

But.....

As noted about all this money you spend stays here. It goes to your local utility which spends it's money in the US.

So do you want to pump up Big Oil and the MidEast or do you want to spend half as much and keep it in the US? That's not too difficult a question to answer.

[Fusion2.3H]

Originally Posted by SRX7697

how much does a conversion cost?

Including the price of the Prius and conversion it will cost $35,000 when Green Gear dealers begin offering conversions. The price is coming down over the next two years once costs are depreciated, and could come down to about $6,000.

The 85mpg figure isn't representative of most people. In normal driving your going to get around 65mpg, which granted is still pretty good.

If your asking how I know this, I just got back from the conference a hour half ago.

[TheGeneral]

They could get juice from so many sources.
Hydro
Wind
Solar
Geothermal
Coal
Natural Gas
Nuclear

[edsuski]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

It's not necessarily true that your electric bill will 'go through the roof'. It's certain to increase but if you have a 40 mi RT commute in a Cobalt now you're spending

Home electricity + 1.0-1.5 gal of gasoline or $4 to $6 per day on gas.
Depending on your electricity rate you might pay $2 to $3 per day extra on charging at home. IOW your outlay for transportation would be half of what it is now.

But.....

As noted about all this money you spend stays here. It goes to your local utility which spends it's money in the US.

So do you want to pump up Big Oil and the MidEast or do you want to spend half as much and keep it in the US? That's not too difficult a question to answer.

Just to be clear - driving 40 miles in a Volt and recharging in S. Cal (high rates) would cost about $1.60. About half that in other parts of the country. If you are getting 20 miles per gallon now - you would be spending about $8 to travel 40 miles. If you are like most of us and get closer to 15 MPG (in the city) then you would be saving about $9 per day.

And you are right - all of the money would stay in the country - not be shipped over to the Middle East.

[CJ Thunder]

Originally Posted by rd66

What is the point of a plug-in... in the long run? You get great fuel economy!

Not really its just a hybrid with a bigger battery. MPG is the same if you want to get technical.

[GG_TECH]

Hey ED Old Buddy,

They auto mfgs should differentiate between a Plug in Hybrid (PH) and the PHEV aka volt. Where the diiference between the two is that the ICE is used in the PHEV to charge the batteries only. It's gets a little confusing.

You mention A123 Systems in previous posts. I went through presentation back in the spring they were discussing their FE-Phosphate Lithium Ion batteries. They were quite an improvemt to the industry standatrd lithium ions. I was very impressed with them much greater reliability, thousand of times of 95%DODs without loosing that much capacity and a 10 year life plus they are safer if they are under stress (release less O2, less explosion prone).

A123 systems have or are working on retrofit kits for plug in hybrids. Not sure if they are using the above battery. The above batteries are not in large volume production. It's in their website. Supposedly it increases the MPG by as much as 50% as mentioned above. As for current loads for the "Plug in AC/DC charger", it's similar to plugging in a refridgerator (several amps) so power consumption should be reasonable and not that expensive per household.

Anyway it's a bargain considering the alternative, indirectly funding of our adversaries.

[GG_TECH]

Beau wrote

Would more Nuclear power plants actually help drop energy costs? Or do they require a lot of overhead to run?

They require some manpower to operate considering the complexity of the Nuclear reactors and their supporting systems. There could be several hundred employees at a plant. Additionally, you need safety and security personell. My father worked in SCE in San Onofre south of San Clemente, CA. I have been in that one several times. Lots of security.

Nuclear Power's biggest drawback is the waste they generate. The waist generated is probably the most toxic substance in this planet. I had an email conversation with someone very prominent, he mentioned that 60000 tons of nuclear waste have been created. Now the Dept of Energy wants to dump this waste into my resident state of Nevada. So insues the big fight. Until the Nuclear Industry resolves the nuclear waste issue, I don't see NP to be a strong contender for alternative energies. More focus on more safer and less costly alternatives such as wind, solar, and geothermal. oh and of course more Lithium Ion Batts.

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by rd66

What is the point of a plug-in... in the long run? You get great fuel economy! You take the car home and plug it in for 8 hours, your electric bill goes through the roof, the power companies need to mine and burn more fossil fuels (which is contributing to global warming) to create more electricity. AND lithium ion batteries DO have a life span which means they will have to be replaced, unlike the weaker Nmh batteries. It may not be a win-win. More like a win- lose

No, no. That's just wrong.......wait a minute..... I see what you're doing here. You're putting out a ridiculous, uninformed argument, KNOWING that it will draw out the corrections, thus showing what you were REALLY thinking. Reverse psychology! Very sneaky. You almost got me!

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by Fusion2.3H

Including the price of the Prius and conversion it will cost $35,000 when Green Gear dealers begin offering conversions. The price is coming down over the next two years once costs are depreciated, and could come down to about $6,000.

The 85mpg figure isn't representative of most people. In normal driving your going to get around 65mpg, which granted is still pretty good.

If your asking how I know this, I just got back from the conference a hour half ago.

65mpg is unimpressive at that cost... you're only going to save about $400 a year over a standard Prius.

If plug-in Prii don't do better than 65mpg the Volt's going to kick its butt.
I didn't think there was any way the Volt's cost difference could be made up but depending on what the Gov't kicks in now I'm not so sure.

[PRO_USA1776]

I was thinking those that live on the left and east coasts should be able to alleviate global warming by:

1. Banning imports of anything from asia that is not transported by sailing ships.
2. Turning down the AC in their car, house, and work.
3. Join van-pools
4. Live in 1200 sq foot homes not 10,000+
5. Refuse to fly in private jets
6. Drive their hybrids around without using fuel
7. Quit telling everyone else how to live
8. Quit sucking the colorado dry
9. Go from #7 in the world for green hoiuse gas emmisions to #150
10. Ride a bike or take public transport
11. Allow windfarms in their back yards

[AMERICA 123]

Now that's a plan !

Maybe they could actually quit favoring Toyota and battery equipped HSD AND do something really constructive for virtually everything else.

Kalifornia ( intentional ms - captures the flavor ) would be a natural for bio diesel and ethanol production - and decentralized wind and solar ..... and geo / hydro thermal for hydrogen..... ( and to give the Colorado a needed break. )

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by Beau

Would more Nuclear power plants actually help drop energy costs? Or do they require a lot of overhead to run?

I'll take a stab at the answer coming from a slightly different perspective: nuclear power plants would require American workers paid a fairly reasonable salary to build and operate an energy plant that has the potential to vastly reduce the consumption of some foreign-sourced commodities that place our nation at a security risk and that accelerate the transfer of hundreds of billions of dollars annually of our wealth to unfriendly nations. There are definitely risks, and you'll definitely not see me advocating the construction of such a plant next door to me, but in the end, I generally support the move.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

I'll take a stab at the answer coming from a slightly different perspective: nuclear power plants would require American workers paid a fairly reasonable salary to build and operate an energy plant that has the potential to vastly reduce the consumption of some foreign-sourced commodities that place our nation at a security risk and that accelerate the transfer of hundreds of billions of dollars annually of our wealth to unfriendly nations. There are definitely risks, and you'll definitely not see me advocating the construction of such a plant next door to me, but in the end, I generally support the move.

Canada is an unfriendly Nation? Is it because we don't like the hockey? hehehe I get what you're saying, and I agree, but we do buy most of our oil from Canada and Mexico - at least more of it than what we get from the OPEC-is. As for the bolded statement, that's primarily one of the problems; the NIMBY's. Everyone is for getting off the foreign oil teet, everyone is for keeping that $300 billion a year here in America, everyone is for energy independence. Everyone, that is, until someone mentions nuclear energy....then they trip over themselves running the other direction screaming, "Not near my house!!!". Someone, somewhere, is going to have to allow it.

France has done it for decades and none of them glow in the dark. France has 59 reactors (in a country almost as big as California), which generate 79% of their electricity. France has the lowest electric rates in Europe, and they even export some of their electricity. They had one minor accident in 2008 where some water containing unenriched uranium was accidentally spilled, a Level 1 (anomaly) incident. Also, about 100 employees were exposed to radioactive particles when a pipe leaked. Not bad considering the nearly 30 years they've been running. Now, if France can do it, what's stopping us? The NIMBY's.

[blank disk]

Does anyone know if Ford is also rushing to market a car like the Volt.
You know, a limited production car that costs $48,000 and generates ZERO profit for the company?