Plug-in hybrids generate buzz in San Jose

[mgescuro]

Plug-in hybrids generate buzz in San Jose

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BU6711TF9S.DTL



The plug-in hybrid car is ready for its close-up.

Once known only to a small group of devotees, the ultra-high-mileage cars have generated enough buzz to draw about 650 people to a plug-in conference in San Jose Tuesday.

Major auto companies discussed their plans to mass market plug-ins, which operate like regular hybrids but can recharge off a wall socket, greatly extending their mileage. San Jose Mayor Chuck Reed announced that a local startup will install charging stations around the city, for plug-in owners who live in apartments or want to recharge at work.

And Andy Grove, former CEO of computer chipmaker Intel Corp., suggested a government program to retrofit existing trucks and SUVs with plug-in technology.

The conference was a sign that plug-ins may soon hit the mainstream. No big car company currently mass produces them. Until now, the only way to get one was to buy a regular hybrid and pay someone to convert it - or try to do the work yourself.

But General Motors is now developing a type of plug-in car called the Volt, which the company plans to start selling in 2010. GM also plans a plug-in version of the Saturn Vue sport utility vehicle. Ford has its own plug-in program, as do Toyota and Daimler.

For the automakers, plug-ins are a way to address global warming and record gasoline prices at the same time.

"We increasingly believe that the ultimate solution involves the electrification of the auto as quickly as possible," said Jon Lauckner, vice president of global program management for General Motors.

More at Link

[K-1]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

For the automakers, plug-ins are a way to address global warming and record gasoline prices at the same time.

Gas prices, yes. CAFE, yes. Global warming, no.

[SRX7697]

how much does a conversion cost?

[logansowner]

Originally Posted by SRX7697

how much does a conversion cost?

More than it is worth likely. I don't think it's a cost effective venture for car makers..they just have to play to the green trend, doubtful they will make any real money.

[mikest00]

Originally Posted by K-1

Gas prices, yes. CAFE, yes. Global warming, no.

Exactly!

[ronald mcretard]

Originally Posted by K-1

Gas prices, yes. CAFE, yes. Global warming, no.

gas prices, yes.
CAFE, yes.
energy security, yes.
no more oil money in the pockets of terrorists, yes.
less tailpipe pollution in the air (you know, the stuff you breath?), yes
more use of American energy sources, yes.
no more stopping at gas stations, yes.

Exactly how many reasons do you need? What is the point of ridiculing global warming enthusiasts (I am not one by the way)? Can't you just see it as another means to the same end?

[Dennis214]

The City of Minnepolis has partnered witha local Toyota dealership and an independent company to convert Priuses into Plug Ins. $10,000 is the cost to the customer that is advertised.

[rd66]

Originally Posted by ronald mcretard

gas prices, yes.
CAFE, yes.
energy security, yes.
no more oil money in the pockets of terrorists, yes.
less tailpipe pollution in the air (you know, the stuff you breath?), yes
more use of American energy sources, yes.
no more stopping at gas stations, yes.

Exactly how many reasons do you need? What is the point of ridiculing global warming enthusiasts (I am not one by the way)? Can't you just see it as another means to the same end?

What is the point of a plug-in... in the long run? You get great fuel economy! You take the car home and plug it in for 8 hours, your electric bill goes through the roof, the power companies need to mine and burn more fossil fuels (which is contributing to global warming) to create more electricity. AND lithium ion batteries DO have a life span which means they will have to be replaced, unlike the weaker Nmh batteries. It may not be a win-win. More like a win- lose

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by ronald mcretard

gas prices, yes.
CAFE, yes.
energy security, yes.
no more oil money in the pockets of terrorists, yes.
less tailpipe pollution in the air (you know, the stuff you breath?), yes
more use of American energy sources, yes.
no more stopping at gas stations, yes.

Exactly how many reasons do you need? What is the point of ridiculing global warming enthusiasts (I am not one by the way)? Can't you just see it as another means to the same end?

The no-such-thing-as-GW group is just as much a religion as the yes-there-is-GW group is, so one always has to ridicule the other as a matter of principle. But you have some good points that funnily enough, the reporter didn't think to address.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by SRX7697

how much does a conversion cost?

About $9-$12K, plus the cost of the Prius. Or, about the price of a Volt.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by rd66

What is the point of a plug-in... in the long run? You get great fuel economy! You take the car home and plug it in for 8 hours, your electric bill goes through the roof, the power companies need to mine and burn more fossil fuels (which is contributing to global warming) to create more electricity. AND lithium ion batteries DO have a life span which means they will have to be replaced, unlike the weaker Nmh batteries. It may not be a win-win. More like a win- lose

Dude, if your light bill going up about $30 a month, while your gasoline expenses drop more than $100, is considered 'going through the roof', you need to get a stronger roof. Wow.

[ronald mcretard]

Originally Posted by rd66

What is the point of a plug-in... in the long run? You get great fuel economy! You take the car home and plug it in for 8 hours, your electric bill goes through the roof, the power companies need to mine and burn more fossil fuels (which is contributing to global warming) to create more electricity. AND lithium ion batteries DO have a life span which means they will have to be replaced, unlike the weaker Nmh batteries. It may not be a win-win. More like a win- lose

Your electric bill increase will be more than offset by your gas savings (and again, American fuel as opposed to imported fuel). I think most experts estimate that electricity will be the equivalent of $1.00 per gallon or lower in most places.

Li-ion batteries do have a lifespan, but you don't have to replace them right away. The range will just slowly decrease. If you're OK with a 30 mile EV range instead of a 40 mile EV range, I would guess you can keep the original battery pack for a very long time. (GM has stated that the 40 mile range is an "end-of-life" target, which I am assuming means 10 years or something).

[lol internet]

Originally Posted by rd66

What is the point of a plug-in... in the long run? You get great fuel economy! You take the car home and plug it in for 8 hours, your electric bill goes through the roof, the power companies need to mine and burn more fossil fuels (which is contributing to global warming) to create more electricity. AND lithium ion batteries DO have a life span which means they will have to be replaced, unlike the weaker Nmh batteries. It may not be a win-win. More like a win- lose

The argument that I hear is that electrical energy (whether coal, natural gas, nuclear, hydroelectric, whatever) can be generated far more efficiently than an internal combustion engine can. Think about how much of the energy in a gallon of gas is lost as simple heat. I can't recall the actual percentage, but I have read that IC engines are rather pathetic in how well they convert chemical energy into kinetic energy.

[edsuski]

Originally Posted by rd66

What is the point of a plug-in... in the long run? You get great fuel economy! You take the car home and plug it in for 8 hours, your electric bill goes through the roof, the power companies need to mine and burn more fossil fuels (which is contributing to global warming) to create more electricity. AND lithium ion batteries DO have a life span which means they will have to be replaced, unlike the weaker Nmh batteries. It may not be a win-win. More like a win- lose

In S. California (extremely high energy costs) it will cost roughly $1.60 to drive 40 miles with a PHEV. If you assume you are currently getting 20 MPG that will equate to $0.80 per gallon (half of that in most other states). You really need to know what you are talking about before you make such a ridiculous statement.

A123 Systems (one potential supplier for the Volt) claims that recharging their batteries every day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year for ten years will result in a reduction in capacity of only roughly 14%. Therefore, 86% of the batteries original capacity will be available after ten years. Keep in mind that the Volt will have two 8KW battery banks and use only roughly half that capacity. Therefore, drawing an additional 14%, from the 16 KW supply, should not be an issue.

Lastly, it is far less injurious for a power plant (coal, natural gas, nuclear, hydro, wind, solar etc.) to deliver the power to your home that to allow individual cars to burn gasoline. Remember - there are only roughly 2000 power plants in the country and we can regulate their emissions far better than 6 million cars.

[Beau]

Would more Nuclear power plants actually help drop energy costs? Or do they require a lot of overhead to run?