Pickens Plan for Energy Independance

[tamatt27]

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1653634930
I saw a commercial for this today during the political talk shows and wanted to suggest it for the alternative fuels section.

"IT'S TIME TO STOP AMERICA'S ADDICTION TO FOREIGN OIL

America is in a hole and it's getting deeper every day. We import 70% of our oil at a cost of $700 billion a year - four times the annual cost of the Iraq war.

I've been an oil man all my life, but this is one emergency we can't drill our way out of. But if we create a new renewable energy network, we can break our addiction to foreign oil.

On January 20, 2009, a new President gets sworn in. If we're organized, we can convince Congress to make major changes towards cleaner, cheaper and domestic energy resources.

To get this done, I need your help. Check out the plan. If you think it's worth fighting for, please join our effort."

[pinyon]

I think he has an interesting plan but I have to be suspect that he's looking to bolster his natural gas holdings. While I'm not in any way against cng vehicles, we have to move toward electric vehicles. If cng is the generator in a Volt, then fine, but let's not lose time converting to cng when we should be moving full steam toward evs and figuring out how to clean up the coal plants that are recharging them.

[nikivee]

So how many years will it take to replace fossil fuels? 5, 10, 20, 30 years? Until then we need to not only pursue those alternatives, but drill for our own oil also.

[MikeB]

I disagree - algae biodiesel should be getting the most attention right now to resolve the issues and make it commerically viable.


http://www.shell.com/home/content/ab..._13022008.html

Mike

[XP300]

There was an article in the Chicago newspapers a week or two ago about the price of natural gas going up 24 to 50 percent for home heating customers.

Does Pickens have natural gas holdings and why does he refer to natural gas as a cheap fuel for vehicles?

Most people agree that we must change our energy policy to include new oil and gas drilling, nuclear, solar, ethanol, biodiesel and even wind power.

Energy independence includes converting coal and oil shale to useable fuel and encouraging conservation.

[detltu]

It's an interesting plan but not really worthy of all of the attention its getting. I believe he is involved in building some big wind plants in North Texas. Don't know about his position on Natural gas. CNG should definately be in the picture for alternative fuels in my opinion as should wind energy for power generation. But those two alone won't do it as far as I'm concerned.

[RamJet502]

Wind farms aren't practical to me, nuclear is our best option.

[KingElvis]

Originally Posted by nikivee

So how many years will it take to replace fossil fuels? 5, 10, 20, 30 years? Until then we need to not only pursue those alternatives, but drill for our own oil also.

But we already drill 'our own' oil - but is the oil 'ours?'

No.

If tommorrow they started turning all of Alaska into an oil patch - or put derricks outside of San Fransciso or Miami...well

It wouldn't make ANY difference in the price of oil!

Why? The world oil market is like a bathtub. When we drill the oil it goes into the bathtub

FOR ANYONE IN THE WORLD TO BUY.

So if we drill 'our' oil it's not like we get 100% of it. The additional supply doesn't just apply to the US - it's applied to the entire 'bathtub' of oil from the world.

This means the additional oil would make a very small dent in world supply - and therefore the price of oil would be pretty much unchanged.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by KingElvis

If tommorrow they started turning all of Alaska into an oil patch - or put derricks outside of San Fransciso or Miami...well

It wouldn't make ANY difference in the price of oil!

The price of oil is determined by a "futures" market, any change that would increase the supply of oil (even 10 years from now) would bring oil prices down.

[bigdav160]

Originally Posted by KingElvis

But we already drill 'our own' oil - but is the oil 'ours?'

No.

If tommorrow they started turning all of Alaska into an oil patch - or put derricks outside of San Fransciso or Miami...well

It wouldn't make ANY difference in the price of oil!

Why? The world oil market is like a bathtub. When we drill the oil it goes into the bathtub

FOR ANYONE IN THE WORLD TO BUY.

So if we drill 'our' oil it's not like we get 100% of it. The additional supply doesn't just apply to the US - it's applied to the entire 'bathtub' of oil from the world.

This means the additional oil would make a very small dent in world supply - and therefore the price of oil would be pretty much unchanged.

Those comments are so completely wrong I'm not sure why I'm responding.


As far as Mr. T. Boone's recent campaign, I have reservations, he not only has a "horse in the race", he has many "horses in the race".

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by XP300

Most people agree that we must change our energy policy to include new oil and gas drilling, nuclear ...

House Subcommittee Rejects Plan to Open U.S. Waters to More Oil Exploration

Senate Rejects Bid for Drilling in Arctic Area

Nuclear power does not figure into Obama's proposed alternatives to reliance on petroleum.

McCain Reiterates Opposition to Drilling in ANWR

[XP300]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

House Subcommittee Rejects Plan to Open U.S. Waters to More Oil Exploration

Senate Rejects Bid for Drilling in Arctic Area

Nuclear power does not figure into Obama's proposed alternatives to reliance on petroleum.

McCain Reiterates Opposition to Drilling in ANWR

OK Ron, you got me. I should have said, "most intelligent people agree that we must change our energy policy".

We know that the congress does not meet that qualifier.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

The price of oil is determined by a "futures" market, any change that would increase the supply of oil (even 10 years from now) would bring oil prices down.

We don't know that for sure. The oil market keeps bucking predictions.

Originally Posted by XP300

OK Ron, you got me. I should have said, "most intelligent people agree that we must change our energy policy".

We know that the congress does not meet that qualifier.

"Now suppose I was a member of Congress. Now suppose I was an idiot. But I repeat myself."
- Mark Twain

[rig.jockey]

Well I have to say, Pickens is on the right track. North America relies on Coal very heavily for power generation because of it's low cost. Well, oil was a low cost fuel back in the day. Now the finger gets pointed at China and India's booming economy as the reason behind the current price of oil. Their number one power source is coal. As the people in these countries start using more power, the price of Coal is going to shoot up the same way oil has.

Now there's no sense in getting angry or bitter, because it was Europe and North America that created this economic boom in the east. Who wants to buy a $25 T-shirt made here when you can get 2 from Walmart for $15. Who cares if they come from China ? We made our own bed.

Right now we're in a pretty nasty mess economically. Manufacturing, Customer Service, Computer programming, Lawyers, Advertising jobs and more, they're all being outsourced to these lower wage countries and putting more and more of our people out of work and at the same time increasing the cost of living.

The picture so far...

1) Cost of combustible energy is and will continue to rise steadily

2) The unemployment rate is rising due to businesses downsizing, relocating over seas or shutting down altogether

3) The cost of living is rising due to the increase in food and energy prices.

Now if I were actually someone important, and not a nobody truck driver, I'd realize that this is a recipe for a pretty crappy pie and make some agressive changes.

First off I would push like hell for Solar, Wind and Nuclear power to replace our combustible fuel sources. Germany is a shining example of this push, where they passed a law that everyone is required to purchase energy from rewnewable sources before combustible. In 2000 their renewable energy accounted for 6% of their total energy. In 2007 it's up to 14% and had 240,000 people employed in the sector in 2006. Their 2020 goal is 27% energy from renewables. If you Google - Germany renewable energy - you'll get some great articles on the matter.

Now I'm going on so much about Germany because it is a very old, small and crowded country. Roughly the size of Texas and New Mexico put together. They don't have the potential for solar and wind generation that North America has, so imagine if you could, the numbers we could put out here.

The more renewable energy we have, the more we stabilize the cost of energy because we're not relying as much on a consumable fuel source. We'll be generating new jobs to compensate for the ones we've lost, and we'll be stabilizing the cost of living. Now if we can become leaders in renewable energy technology, imagine selling our products to the governments of China and India, and bringing some of our money back home. We'd be making money AND helping out the environment.

Now as far as the car goes, I believe the answer is an electric car getting recharged from a renewable energy grid. I don't have much faith in the whole hydrogen kick because I don't see the practicality of using energy to produce hydrogen, storing it, transporting it, storing it again in your car and then converting it back to electricity. It just doesn't make sense to me when you can generate the electricity, transport it through power lines instead of a tanker truck, and store it as is in your electric car. I'm a believer in the K.I.S.S. theory .

The reality is though, that we're not going to have this renewable grid tomorrow, and everyone on the planet is not going to have an electric vehicle tomorrow. I definately think they should push for the renewables now. And I think they should be selling the EVs now, because people will buy them. But the fact is that not everyone is going to be able to afford it, and not everyone is going to want it right away. I still remember the resistance to FWD and fuel injected engines, air bags and auto trannies. Who'd want that wacky stuff ?

So to compensate for this I'd push for legislation requiring cars after a certain date, say 2010, to run off of propane as a short term solution while we work on renewables. Now my favorite response when I mention propane is " Oh I had one of those back in the '70s / '80s and it was junk ". Yeah well I had a '74 Lincoln Mark IV that was bigger than a Suburban on the outside, smaller than my Cavalier on the inside and sucked back fuel almost as hard as my Freightliner moving 80,000 lbs down road. I had to cross the living room to change the channel and cellphones were what Captain Kirk used to call Scotty. I'm not even going to get into the hair / clothes.

Anyhow, it's the modern day and cars are not what they used to be. Computer controls are very advanced and modern conversions tap into these controls so that the engine runs properly on propane. Cars from the factory designed to run on propane from the get go should be even better. Now automotive propane, or " autogas " as they call it on the other side of the pond, is 110 octane. The real benefit of this is being able to take a small engine, turbo charge it at higher rpm and use the transmission to cruise at a lower rpm, just under the boost. What this means is as you're accelerating you have the power of a larger engine from the turbo in higher rpm, and once you hit your cruising speed, either in the city or on the highway, the transmission will drop into the next highest gear so you're not using the turbo and getting the fuel economy benefits of your smaller engine.

This is how it's done with transport trucks, which all use 12L to 16L inline 6 cylinder turbocharged engines. I can get 7 to 9 mpg with a 14L engine pulling 80,000 lbs down the highway, compared to a Chevy Suburban pulling it's own weight of 5,600 lbs with a 6L V8 and according to the EPA only getting 17 mpg on the highway.

Propane is safer than gasoline. It's not poisonous and doesn't cause cancer. It's cleaner burning. It doesn't leave deposits in your engine and doesn't contaminate your oil like gasoline does. Your engine lasts longer and you'll use less oil. With the reduction in greenhouse gases, we'll be reducing the temperature in our major cities that's caused by heat trapped in the smog. That means that every air conditioner running in our cities will not be working as hard, much the same as if we turned everyone's AC up a degree or two. Now there's a good chunch of energy saved, and less resources burned.

Now here's my biggest reason why I'd push for the propane. With foreign oil, it's taken out of the ground, thrown onto a tanker, trucked to the coast, thrown on a ship, shipped across the ocean, thrown back onto a tanker truck, trucked to a refinery, processed, then trucked to either a distribution center or gas station... that's a lot of energy used to move the product around that you and I get to pay for. Propane on the other hand is mostly produced in North America. Think of us as the OPEC of propane. Now instead of us sending our money to the middle east where in places like Dubai they can build indoor ski resorts and rotating buildings, drive around in their Holden Caprice with it's big V8 engines and pay a subsidized rate of $0.50 per gallon, why don't we keep it here? Switch to propane and increase the mining of methane. There's jobs. We'll need a few more refineries for it, more jobs. Manufacturing jobs to make the storage tanks etc. Then we develope a market exporting it to other countries. Lets keep the jobs here, reduce our cost of living, improve our economy and environment. Personally I'm tired of getting taken advantage of every time a long weekend comes up. I'm tired of the price of gas going up because the weather man forcasts a weekend of sunshine. I'm tired of working 6 days a week and not seeing my kids so that someone can go skiing in the desert. I'm tired of people losing their homes while in the middle east they're building homes that rotate. I'm tired of businesses having to close down and put people out of work because they can't afford the cost of energy jumping every time some Saudi prince wants a new Bugatti Veyron.

That's just me though, I'm not someone important, just a nobody truck driver.

[rig.jockey]

OMG ! Sorry, I didn't realize my post was so long... my bad !