Obama Plan: $7,000 Tax Credit for Chevy Volt, Entire White House Fleet to Plug-Ins

[ChevroletRevived]

Originally Posted by T-Type

Thanks for the link. The very last line of that article says:



If they quoted McCain correctly, the Volt would not qualify for the tax credit.

BTW $300 million is chump change in the world of battery research/development.

They didn't quote him correctly: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/18/m...r-volt-others/. He specifically mentioned the Volt (he was at the GM Technical Center). Also, I know that $300 million for battery development is a small amount however, it's better then nothing. Many companies have been trying to develop similar batteries without any such incentive at all.

[Gigantor]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Using U.S. Dept of Treasury statistics to combat feeling-type responses? That'll go over well here! Listen to the bottom 50% wage earners on this site who pay nothing to the Treasury every year: Obama's pie-in-the-sky, spend-money-we-don't-have is good for the nation. Trust him.

If someone would grow a pair of balls and tackle the Medicare, Medicaid disaster than we would have no budget problems to speak of and low tax rates for everyone would be possible without plunging into massive deficits. Medicare and Medicaid comprise 2/3 of our current 3.2 trillion dollar Federal Budget.Our interest payments on our loans stands at about 300 billion as well And it will only grow and by about 2030-40 it (Medicare Medicaid) will comprise 100% of our current budget. Probably prompting our credit rating to fall to A or worse and our dollar to be sold off into oblivion and our govt will have to declare itself insolvent and unable to meet further debt obligations and then re-issue our currency. The Mexican govt did it as well as a host of 3rd world nations!

It should be a considered a criminal act the way our govt. handles the tax dollars they confiscate from us, but lets raise taxes on every thing and continue to feed the obese monster in D.C.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by WillCG

Curious...reading the tagline at the bottom of your posts, where is your proof that China is drilling off the Florida coast? According to the article below, they are not.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html

Thanks; I pointed that out weeks ago, that even Cheney had to publicly reverse that claim.....yet it remains his tag line. Facts are SUCH pesky things at times when one has an agenda.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by sigma

Oh, dear lord! You actually read the plan. Well that's the end of this conversation. Is it terrible that we have the Australians telling us about our own politicians energy plans because most Americans are too DAMN lazy to read it themselves?

Hey give Americans a break! They NEED to stay abreast of REALLY important things, like the $14 million spent to get the first pics of Brad and Jolie's offspring, or Britney Spears' latest weight gain and drug rehab status, or who's ahead on American Idol. Do you think Americans have the time to stay informed about EVERYTHING! Geesh! Next thing you know you'll expect them to know that Iran is in full compliance with the NPT and additional protocol and that the IAEA says they have produced NO enriched uranium above 3% even though Cheney and Bush keep stating as "fact" 90%. Americans just don't have the time to research the lies spread before wars of choice are launched....so how can they find the time to look into energy policy?

[Gigantor]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Why don't you and those who support government intervention support investment in the nation versus a perpetuation of consumption? You know, the same type of consumption that led to rising foreclosure rates, the same type of consumption that gave us over-valued home prices, the same type of "stimuli" that encouraged the purchase of FS SUV's that engendered Detroit's dependency on the same type of vehicles that presently is causing the collapse of the domestic automakers, the same type of consumption that leads people to use their homes as ATM's, the same type of consumption that equates to monthly record trade deficits, the same type of consumption that leads to short-term economic fixes like borrowing money from China for an economic stimulus package for lower-income Americans to purchase more sub-par products from China? Why is that considered change, why is that considered stimuli? Sounds like the same old politicking with a new face to me.

If you're going to support tax breaks-or is it stimuli, I'm not quite sure?-why not support tax breaks for investment in American industry? Rather than supporting the consumption of an electric car, how 'bout investing in the companies that make the electric car? Novel concept, I know. Rather than the masses moving collectively to buy electric cars they would share in the success of the companies that make them. Heaven forbid!

I see what you're getting, but that would take tax credits, reductions etc in several areas of industry. Ideas like this are like sunlight to a vampire to the left. Our current Corp. Tax Rate stands at 35%, which is highest in the world and certainly makes business and industry look else-where for investment, work forces and production bases. Drop the tax rate to around 20%, close loopholes and provide tax credits to those wanting to update production centers and R&D. The left doesn't like it because they see companies as evil, exploitative entities that are unending rivers of cash and that tax rates are things that don't matter in the global economy. You should be punished for making money...and so business looks elsewhere. The Right of course is in bed with "Big" *insert industry here and just want to feed the fat cats, the media pushes that narrative and so here we are.

Instead of borrowing money from the Chinese to fund worthless Stimulus Programs (read: please vote for us programs) we should get our budget in order, get our failed albatross "Great Society" () programs reformed, and drop our corporate tax rates to 10%. Capital will flow back into the U.S., our dollar will strengthen b/c of our balanced budget and maybe we can see manufacturing centers move back here.....it isn't supply side versus production/demand side...it has to be both.

But, until our govt. shapes up, it ain't gonna happen and we will see more cheap money from artificially low interest rates which will lead to more asset bubbles which will then start the cycle all over again!

But what do I know.

[Gigantor]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

Hey give Americans a break! They NEED to stay abreast of REALLY important things, like the $14 million spent to get the first pics of Brad and Jolie's offspring, or Britney Spears' latest weight gain and drug rehab status, or who's ahead on American Idol. Do you think Americans have the time to stay informed about EVERYTHING! Geesh! Next thing you know you'll expect them to know that Iran is in full compliance with the NPT and additional protocol and that the IAEA says they have produced NO enriched uranium above 3% even though Cheney and Bush keep stating as "fact" 90%. Americans just don't have the time to research the lies spread before wars of choice are launched....so how can they find the time to look into energy policy?

Those photos were shocking I say!!! Those babies that Jolie gave birth too looked like............babies! I can now rest easy tonight.

[Knucklehead]

"

If I am president, I will immediately direct the full resources of the federal government and the full energy of the private sector to a single, overarching goal – in ten years, we will eliminate the need for oil from the entire Middle East and Venezuela,”

He will direct private industry???? Comrade Obama speaks, we all must obey

[Carver]

Originally Posted by Knucklehead

"

He will direct private industry???? Comrade Obama speaks, we all must obey

It's called a public-private partnership. PPPs have been used successfully in many countries, including the US.

Carter wanted the US to fund research and development of alternative energy sources. This R&D would be payed for, at least in part, by the government licensing or selling its technology to private enterprises which would then put products into production. Hence, the government would assume the risk of investing in the R&D (something many enterprises would be shy to do on their own) and would then recoup a return on that investment from production.

If Carter had been reelected oil would be much less important to the US, we may have never invaded Iraq in 1991, we may not have had US soldiers in Saudi Arabia, and 9/11 may not have ever happened. But America was fooled into believing the radical right-wing economic orthodoxy of Reagan. "Just leave private industry alone and all will be well." Well, we now know that leaving the private sector alone doesn't always work. The private sector requires regulation and guidance from the government to prevent disasters, like the housing situation.

[Dukeboy01]

I'm curious to see what kind of mileage the uparmored Prius stretch limo inevitably demanded by the Secret Service would get.

Look, it's great that Obama wants to preach "Hope" and "Change" and all of that, but his time table is completely unrealistic. I'm not sure offering a lot of false hope counts as leadership.

Another word for "hope" is "wish." Well, hope in one hand and crap in the other and see which one piles up first.

[steve333]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

You know that for a fact or are you just projecting GOP propoganda?

You have an incoming President proposing a broad amnesty, much like shrub did when he was first elected, and you will have people swarming the border to get it.
It happened when shrub got in and just kept increasing as his term went on.
Obama has already said he would stop the ICE raids on firms knowingly hiring illegals.
Obama would be an unmitigated disaster for this country.

[steve333]

Originally Posted by ColoradoZQ8

Wow, that inspires confidence.

Perhaps he should try writing bills that he'd actually support..... You know when a person has been in Washington too long: When you write your own stuff to Veto.

Well, I have to give him some credit for admitting his Bill sucked ass.
I'd love to see Obama show some humility. Fat chance of that.

[ColoradoZQ8]

Originally Posted by Gigantor

And those that make 250k a year, that also includes families combined income of 250k or more. Add a few kids, house, cars, energy, college etc and that's not so "rich" anymore. This income level also represents a fair portion of our single owner small and medium sized business in the country as well. It's real easy to vilify and blame problems on the most productive earners and tax payers and make them some evil, greedy entity, but, aside from the exceptions, it really isn't the reality. When some politician says the rich need to "pay their fair share" look behind the rhetoric and realize the reason a lot of us don't pay much in taxes is because the rich pay so much.

I'm not saying that the "rich" should pay some ungodly low amount or anything like that, as I am certainly not part of the top 25%, but lets please get it straight.

Give me a break.

Kids or not -- if you can't provide for your family when you make $250,000 a year -- then that person is a complete idiot. Whine, Whine. I stated accurate facts that were not disproved by your "visual aid."

My dad was able to provide for a family of 3 (feed and shelter), making only $10,000 a year as a Math Teacher in the middle of stagflation (1980). There is nothing you could possibly say to make me ever sympathize for someone who makes a quarter of a million EACH YEAR. I'm 2 years away from a Ph.D -- and I plan to join the "Top 1%" in the next decade -- and I still say tax the rich whiners without the Bush tax giveaways.

I mean -- wow, it would really suck for those "Top 1%" -- they'd have to pass up that 6th Lamborghini and have settle for a lowly Cadillac or Corvette.
I hear the violin music already.

[ColoradoZQ8]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Using U.S. Dept of Treasury statistics to combat feeling-type responses? That'll go over well here! Listen to the bottom 50% wage earners on this site who pay nothing to the Treasury every year: Obama's pie-in-the-sky, spend-money-we-don't-have is good for the nation. Trust him.

So you'd rather pay for Welfare and Unemployment to 150,000 out-of-work auto workers???? -- then invest in the domestic automakers so they can stay competitive with European and Japanese car companies (that already receive government subsidies).

Both McCain and Obama provide tax cuts. McCain's go farther for the rich. Both McCain and Obama are talking about 16 month "Time Horizons" now to get out of Iraq. They both are planning to spend the money differently -- but they both are making plans for the money saved by not being in Iraq.

Honestly, McCain will never be a conservative -- he's a downright liberal in non-social issues (Amnesty, Environmental, etc.)

...and I think you just insulted this entire board on top of it -- assuming we're all in the bottom 50% of wage earners. Speak for yourself.

[ColoradoZQ8]

Originally Posted by steve333

Well, I have to give him some credit for admitting his Bill sucked ass.
I'd love to see Obama show some humility. Fat chance of that.

Humility? From McCain?????

Did you even see the insulting Charlton Heston, Paris Hilton or Britney Spears ads?
I don't think its humanly possible to be a more arrogrant scumbag by announcing "he was proud of those ads" -- the ads were gutter trash.

Instead of debating real issues -- McCain is trying to distract people just how bad the country's economy has gotten. Yeah, the chief architect of McCain's economic plan lobbied for the deregulation of Energy ("the Enron loophole") which was a primary factor to our economic woes (allowed speculators to artificially jack up the prices of commodities).

If McCain really wants independent voters like me to pull the lever for him -- he should probably stop acting like such a jacka$$.

[King Riffle]

Originally Posted by jzEllis

what exactly IS the motivation for this? to cut back on relations with the middle east? does anyone really think that just cus we don't buy oil from them they won't still hate the west? PLEASE!! radical right wing hate against theUS and the west in general goes back way further than just that.

The idea is to stop sending money to unfriendly-to-U.S.-interests nations. They could (do) spend some of that money against us.

Not to mention they wouldn't have us by the dangley bits. If we didn't depend on OPEC, the gas crisis in the '70s wouldn't have happened.