New light on GM's EV1

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by edsuski

Do you have any idea how much power is available after midnight on the grid in California? Again - at least 75% of the people in California work 1st or 2nd shift and can charge their cars at night. They will be incentivized to do so by reduced rates - already in place to encourage such activity. Car charging circuits will be equipped with the ability to set the time that the charge is applied. Very simple. Plenty of power available at night. Plenty of power available at night. Plenty of power available at night. Just keep repeating that to yourself.

That is what they want you to think. you are soo naive, you actually believe that people will act like the government tells you they will act?

[edsuski]

Who is "they"? What is the conspiracy you seem to be referring to?

If it is significantly cheaper to recharge at night - people will do it. What is so hard to believe about that? Imagine for a minute the power savings on the grid when all of the shopping malls are closed, people turn off their ovens after cooking dinner, dryers are finished running, air conditioners are slowing down or turning off. It seems really obvious. Am I missing something?

[edsuski]

Southern California Edison

Rate Information - Residential Rates

Electric Vehicles

Do You Own an Electric Vehicle (EV)?

Rate Schedule TOU-EV-1 is designed for residential customers who charge their electric vehicle(s) at their primary residence. Under this schedule, you receive substantial savings if you charge your electric vehicle(s) during the off-peak hours.
On-Peak: 12:00 noon to 9:00 p.m. - all year, every day
Off-Peak: All other hours - all year, every day


Here it is in black and white. Charge off peak and save. Simple as that! This is why people will do it - no conspiracy. Just real cost savings.

[edsuski]

Potential value of plug-in hybrids (from Sothern California Edison site)

Using off-peak electricity to fuel transportation could increase grid productivity and help bring down the price of electricity for utility customers. Each night, a large percentage of America’s power generation infrastructure sits idle. A recent study by the U.S. Department of Energy estimated that if every light duty car and truck in America today used plug-in hybrid technology, 73 percent of them could be plugged in and fueled by excess capacity without constructing a single new power plant or power line.

Read that again. Huge capacity (off-peak) - "if every light duty car and truck in America today used plug-in hybrid technology, 73% of them could be plugged in and fueled by excess capacity without constructing a single new power plant or power line"

Again - "without constructing a single new power plant or power line"

Convinced?

[uboys]

Originally Posted by VCDJ

By killing EV1 Gm killed its self. Instead of being leader in eco. technology. Now that is toyota. If gm just kept improving this car each year i am sure by now it would be way better then volt that does not even exist yet. I am sure gm would not be losing market share like they are losing now. This is another one of gm mistakes. Please try not to say that technology did not exist for electric car. Most of you do not know first car that porche made over 100 years ago was electric car. Second car that porche made was hybrid like Volt. Technology was there even 100 years ago. It just looks like that oil companies have to much power.

And Communism just needed one more chance to work...




Tesla can only manage a $92000 two-seater up to now. What were GM's "improvements" going to produce again?

[edsuski]

Originally Posted by uboys

And Communism just needed one more chance to work...




Tesla can only manage a $92000 two-seater up to now. What were GM's "improvements" going to produce again?

The Volt is designed to be a serial Hybrid, four passenger car. The Tesla is an electric only two passaenger SPORTS car and has a much larger battery pack (200+ miles range vs. Volts 40 mile electric only range). The Tesla is designed for very high performance (0-60 in less than 4 seconds) and is a two passenger vehicle. The Volt is a completely different vehicle. It is designed to carry up to four passengers forty miles using zero gasoline. 40 miles is enough range for 78% of the countries commuters to drive to and from work. NOT EVERYOE - JUST 78%. If you commute further - the small internal combustion flex fuel engine will kick on and drive a generator to supply power to the electric motor and give you an additional 600+ miles range at which time you "could" simply re-fill the fuel tank with a variety of flex fuels (including conventional gasoline) and continue on.

The major advantage is that for 78% of the country - ZERO gasoline will be needed to commute to and from work. People will not need to worry about becoming stranded if they exceed 40 miles because the flex fuel engine will be available. Four passanger vs. two and ten plus years of significant advancements in battery chemistry and electronics. The Volt is likely to be priced at below $40K - hopefully far below. That’s all.

How would you like to have the option to use zero gasoline?

[vcs2600]

Yeah, blaming this on the CARB doesn't really jive since the EV1 was clearly an experimental vehicle and was never going to make it into product as-is.

Also GM said they were coming out with a Hybrid replacement called the GM Precept


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partner...on_of_Vehicles

But they dropped it when they thought they had the Feds in their corner.

Since then they've lost another 7% of marketshare. 20/20 Hindsight, I guess

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by edsuski

Saturn69 is right. Electric cars are not for everyone - just the people who would prefer to pay around $1.70 to drive 40 miles. At 25 mpg - that is like buying gas at $1.07 per gallon. 1/3 - 1/4 of what we are paying today.

And since when do people buy only the car that they need, instead of the car they want? Some do, most don't comrade.

[edsuski]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

And since when do people buy only the car that they need, instead of the car they want? Some do, most don't comrade.

People should buy whatever they want. Those who prefer to get PHEV "mileage" and "performance" should do so. What exactly was your point?

[blkwrxsti]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

I think it was Video. Killing The Radio Star was not enough and in it's bloodlust it took out the EV1, knowing that no one would ever suspect it. It's was almost the perfect crime. Either that or OJ.

My money was on OJ - until I saw that he was out there looking for the guy that killed the electric car.

[blkwrxsti]

BTW - that's a really interesting interview with someone who ought to know. That's what I always thought was missing from the "Who Killed the Electric Car" movie. It would have been nice to hear GM's side of the story. For example, they might have pointed out that there was a recall because of the potential to start fires. Maybe they were able to mitigate the risk, but thought their liability was higher than it was. That seems consistent with the act of crushing every single car. "Making sure people wouldn't remember that it existed", as the movie offered, does not pass any laugh test.

I'm also amused that California's idealism provided the EV1 with it's most fatal flaw. A gas turbine that would run on anything (including ethanol, biodiesel, and vegetable oil) and was only used beyond 120 miles would have been unbelievably advanced, and it would have made Honda seem like a copycat with their Insight. California's mistrust of the auto industry did not let them see the lunacy of letting Politicians design an automobile (even while GM spent billions trying to meet the requirements).

[paul8488]

GM can stop making any vehicle they want. They could stop production of the Silverado tomorrow morning if they felt like it. I find it interesting to know more about the demise of the EV1, but I can't grasp why people think GM somehow owed them the EV1, or even an explanation as to why they canned it.

As for the "we were willing to sign a waiver releiving GM of any liability", riiiiight. In this litiguous society GM was right to not go that route. Even forgetting any potential future lawsuits, there was also the bad potential publicity if the EV1s didn't hold up over the long term. It wouldn't matter if someone had signed a waiver and begged to keep the car... if it broke down on the freeway people would say "Oh look, ANOTHER broken-down GM on the side of the road". GM had their reputation to think about, and I don't blame them for not leaving the loose EV1 end untied.

[ByTheLake]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

I think it was Video. Killing The Radio Star was not enough and in it's bloodlust it took out the EV1, knowing that no one would ever suspect it. It's was almost the perfect crime. Either that or OJ.

I think it was Col. Mustard, in the Billiard Room, with the Candlestick.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by edsuski

People should buy whatever they want. Those who prefer to get PHEV "mileage" and "performance" should do so. What exactly was your point?

My point is Saturn69 is right. The electric car is not for everyone. It will fill the needs of at least 80% of drivers, however less than 10% are likely to buy one IMO. Most people are not going to buy these cars for quite a while still. Just because people should do so, doesn't mean they will. At the time, that number as much, much smaller. I still think it was foolish of GM to seemingly ditch the project, but it's clearly back with the Volt. So they didn't truely kill the EV1, they just kinda pushed it aside to cash in on the SUV boom. Was it the right thing to do. That depends on your definition of right. It was the right way to make a lot of money in the short term. But it wasn't sustainable. Most board members look for the quick payout, however. I don't agree with that line of thinking, but it seems to be their modus operandi.

[LAMRONH]

Originally Posted by zete

That makes more sense. And it's ironic that California did the original design in.

Ironic that a gaggle of ill-informed, pie-in-the-sky do-gooders, who have never in this or past lives run a business, ruined what should have been a giant first step for GM?

Ironic that GM's uncreative management didn't just pull out of The Peoples Democratic Republic of Kalif. and promote the EV1 elsewhere, like Phoenix, Atlanta, and other areas that would have proven a bit more user-friendly?

The appalling lack of great, or even reasonably intelligent and flexible, leadership in our nation today is going to be our undoing.
When you bureaucratize and rule-make until the system seizes, you will pay the piper. You drive out the best and the brightest.
And we are paying the piper today, in so many ways.