Lutz says "no plug-in hybrid race" between Toyota, GM; Toyota to Debut Plug-in First

[eurohazard]

I'll post the same thing I posted at ToyotaNation:

Um...he right though.

I am not saying which system is best. However, the Chevy Volt will run for ~40 miles on electric power alone.....then there's a small gas engine whose sole duty is to act as a generator for those batteries (keeping them charged so you continue to travel).

Toyota's system is like the current Prius right? Sure it can and will run on electric power for stints, but I believe it has a gasoline engine that also powers the wheels? Am I right?

If it were a race though Toyota would be ahead by a mile. GM's efforts of using 2-mode hybrids in SUVs ARE commendable. For instance I get 13 mpg city in my Armada, but Hybrid Tahoes are getting 20 mpg....that's an improvement of 35%! Toyota hasn't and has no plans to delve into the hybrid truck/full-size SUV arena. But on the car-front a Hybrid Camry kicks the snot out of a Hybrid Aura or Malibu. And of course there's the love-it-or-loathe-it Prius.

I still think in the context of that (short) article, Lutz is correct.

[GMusa]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

If the Toyota plug-in hybrid is cheaper than the Volt with similar mpg ratings GM is toast.

Heres what i have heard about Toyota plug-in. Of course its a version of the Prius.. and its said that its going to be able to run about 7 miles on just electric power... That said.. the Volt is going to be able to run about 40 miles on just electric power!! Im not sure the mpg rating of the Toyota plug-in.. but over 70% of people will be able to run everyday where ever they go on just electric power alone with the Volt. The Volt is far more advanced then the Toyota plug-in. the Toyota plun-in is going to be low tech compared to the Volt and is most likely being rushed into production so Toyta can just say "hey, look here we are the fist with a plug-in car!!" But i believe the Volt is going to still be the game changer!

[camaro_freak]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

I actually agree with Lutz on an issue for once. The problem is the difference between the powertrains will be hard to explain to most consumers, and I'm certain Toyota still will be perceived as setting the pace of hybrid advancement. If GM had strong marketing, I bet it could deliver the message and set GM apart. But we all know that GM marketing isn't quite up to the task of advertising regular cars, so telling the story of the Volt will be a nearly impossible task for them.

And for what it's worth, based on the PR benefits, I do think it's important who gets their plug-in to market first.

amen to that. Watch GM bungle the launch of the most important car they've ever produced.

[usa1]

Let's see how we got here.

- Watch your competition bring out hybrid technology.
- Miss the shift in the marketplace that was about the happen. (No one in GM ever heard of peak oil apparently)
- Bad mouth the competition's hybrid tech saying the economics are all wrong.
- Watch hybrid sales take off.
- Rush half baked hybrid vehicles (mild hybrid AKA BAS) to the market.
- Watch mild hybrid sales go no where.
- Develop a new plug in hybrid technology that will leap frog the competition
- Introduce the idea YEARS before the plug in hybrid technology is ready.
- Hype the plug in hybrid technology as the biggest news in power train technology in decades
- Hype the plug in tech as being years ahead of the competition
- Hype the new tech more
- Hype the new tech even more
- Hype the new tech in excruciating detail and include it in ads
- Share every bit of information about the new tech with the world and the competition
- Talk about the new tech as the second coming
- Start to temper the hype by saying it will cost $35K to $40K
- Temper the hype more by saying the volume will be very low
- Listen to how your competition will beat you to the marketplace in plug in tech
- Starting talking in terms of how this is not a race

I don't like how this is heading for GM.

I've been saying for years that GM, Lutz, Waggoner, etc. should STFU about future products, hype the stuff you have and are selling TODAY (even if it is crap compared to the new stuff), work on the new stuff out of the spotlight so the competition doesn't know where you are heading years in advance, and bring it out AHEAD of the competition with minimal introduction lead time.

Mark

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by usa1

Let's see how we got here.

- Watch your competition bring out hybrid technology.
- Miss the shift in the marketplace that was about the happen. (No one in GM ever heard of peak oil apparently)
- Bad mouth the competition's hybrid tech saying the economics are all wrong.
- Watch hybrid sales take off.
- Rush half baked hybrid vehicles (mild hybrid AKA BAS) to the market.
- Watch mild hybrid sales go no where.
- Develop a new plug in hybrid technology that will leap frog the competition
- Introduce the idea YEARS before the plug in hybrid technology is ready.
- Hype the plug in hybrid technology as the biggest news in power train technology in decades
- Hype the plug in tech as being years ahead of the competition
- Hype the new tech more
- Hype the new tech even more
- Hype the new tech in excruciating detail and include it in ads
- Share every bit of information about the new tech with the world and the competition
- Talk about the new tech as the second coming
- Start to temper the hype by saying it will cost $35K to $40K
- Temper the hype more by saying the volume will be very low
- Listen to how your competition will beat you to the marketplace in plug in tech
- Starting talking in terms of how this is not a race

I don't like how this is heading for GM.

I've been saying for years that GM, Lutz, Waggoner, etc. should STFU about future products, hype the stuff you have and are selling TODAY (even if it is crap compared to the new stuff), work on the new stuff out of the spotlight so the competition doesn't know where you are heading years in advance, and bring it out AHEAD of the competition with minimal introduction lead time.

Mark

If you belive what lutz is saying then you are crazy. Do you really think there sitting back and saying it's not a race? Come on!! These toyota Pirus Plug in will not be cheap. As I said before the reason that gm Hybrid's can't perform like they should is because of batteries, the saturn vue two mode plug in hybrid with litium ion batteries will be the started of thoes batteries.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by camaro_freak

amen to that. Watch GM bungle the launch of the most important car they've ever produced.

They wouldn't, I had too find out what a Toyota Pirus was, I didn't have too figure out what a Chevrolet Volt is, even now.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Ming

I was really hoping for the Volt to be loudly applauded as a GM first.

Remember Displacement-on-Demand aka Active Fuel Management, and how it was trumped quietly by Honda a couple of years ago when they dropped it in their Odyssey after GM had been talking loudly about it for some time?

I fear that the Prius plug-in hype may similarly eclipse the Volt. Not to mention the "proven" Toyota Prius nameplate vs. a revolutionary Chevy.

I do think it is important to note that the Volt is a very different car (I actually know little about the Plug-In Prius, so I'm not qualified to say just how different it is), but I hope that the media and public realize this, and that GM effectively advertises the difference and the economic or other benefits of the Volt.

Lutz is right in one regard that it doesn't really matter who's first and who's second,but actually this whole technology is in it's infancy at best.

Both 'first' vehicles are going to be very very very minor symbols, nothing more. The Volt is not a savior vehicle, it's far too expensive to be a mass marketed vehicle for the general population. It and the PHEV Prius are going to be niche vehicles for a limited well-to-do demographic. Neither are going to generate much in the way of profits.

Both have to be put on the streets as a first step toward future technologies. Hoping for some miraculous bonanza is just not going to occur.

[corvettekidc6]

a plug in prius is a joke, thats like hooking up a chain saw motor to my bike so i dont have to pedal, and calling it the biggest innovation EVER, when there are such things as motorcycles and scooters. The Volt is going to be the best selling, most attractive, most advanced car that the american consumer can buy. No doubts, no nothing, just sales, and 40+miles of gas free travel to anybody who can get their hands on it

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Lutz is right in one regard that it doesn't really matter who's first and who's second,but actually this whole technology is in it's infancy at best.

Both 'first' vehicles are going to be very very very minor symbols, nothing more. The Volt is not a savior vehicle, it's far too expensive to be a mass marketed vehicle for the general population. It and the PHEV Prius are going to be niche vehicles for a limited well-to-do demographic. Neither are going to generate much in the way of profits.

Both have to be put on the streets as a first step toward future technologies. Hoping for some miraculous bonanza is just not going to occur.

Good points, Fishy, but who got to the West Indes AFTER Columbus, or who stepped onto the Moon as commander of Apollo 12? Or who was in charge of the Soviet Lunar Program?

Second place is last place. Nobody remembers, they just know that you lost.



By the way, answers:

1) I have no clue
2) Charles "Pete" Conrad
3) Vladimir Mishin succeeded Sergei Korolev

[GMusa]

I think the plug-in Vue will be better then the Prius plug-in.. the Vue will be able to go about 20 miles i believe on eletric power.. while the Prius.. only 7! And i think the vue is going to get 60 mpg.. i dont think the Prius will do much better then that!

[63GrandSport001]

or how about this, bring us normal cars at low prices that get awesome fuel economy then you will kick everyones ass.

[1.21 giggawatts]

at this point i say bring on the prius, bring on the volt and bring on anything else that gets us away from gas. hopefully these coming years will go down in automotive history as the major shift away from gas.

[smithrobs]

But the Volt blows the Prius away in the looks dept...

http://link.brightcove.com/services/...tid=1759811968


Link courtesy of GMSource.com

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by corvettekidc6

The Volt is going to be the best selling, most attractive, most advanced car that the american consumer can buy. No doubts, no nothing, just sales, and 40+miles of gas free travel to anybody who can get their hands on it

So you say. And so GM says. But it is just idle bragging until the car actually arrives. The LiIon battery still remains a formidable hurdle and could still derail the whole Volt project if even one test battery catches fire.

[ByTheLake]

Nobody should be surprised that Toyota will be first to market with a plug-in hybrid, if Honda doesn't quietly beat them.

Toyota has extensive hybrid experience and technology, not to mention the deepest pockets in the industry.

Regardless of the distance the Toyota vehicle will drive before switching to gasoline, the "perception" game may be lost by the time the Volt becomes available in meaningful quantities to real drivers.