Lutz says "no plug-in hybrid race" between Toyota, GM; Toyota to Debut Plug-in First

[neshapop]

By TOM KRISHER, AP Auto Writer


JOLIET, Ill. - The race between General Motors Corp. and Japanese rival Toyota Motor Corp. to produce a rechargeable car is meaningless because the companies' vehicle designs are so different, GM's top product executive said Thursday.
Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said Toyota's plug-in hybrid has a much shorter electric range than the Chevrolet Volt and must use a gasoline engine to go any farther. The Volt, he said, runs only on electricity but carries a small gasoline engine to recharge the batteries when they are depleted.

Toyota President Katsuaki Watanabe said Thursday that Toyota will speed up delivery of its plug-in hybrid from 2010 to the end of 2009, while the Volt is due in showrooms in late 2010.

But Lutz said he expects Toyota's plug-in will debut in controlled fleets and not in large numbers. He said GM will have production versions of the Volt working in a large test fleet in late 2009.

Lutz, speaking at an event in Joliet where GM showed reporters its 2009 model lineup, said the Volt's lithium-ion batteries can take it 40 to 50 miles on a single charge. If a driver stays within that range, the car would never use gasoline. To go farther, the motor would come on to recharge the batteries.

Toyota has not released an electric-only range for its plug-in hybrid, which operates similar to its current Prius model by using both gasoline and electricity to propel the vehicle.

Lutz said such hybrids generally have a short electric-only range.

"After eight or 11 miles it reverts to being a completely normal gasoline-electric hybrid, which means you get about a 25-30 percent fuel savings, but the point is they do burn fuel," he said.

More at...http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080828/...toyota_hybrids

[stormwatcher]

Sadly, GM is hardly in the hybrid race yet. The Two-Mode system is excellent but sales so far are tiny.

I applaud the Volt, but not the hype, but where it is at in hybrids at present is where Toyota dominates . . . with the Prius . . . and Honda will be entering this segment early next year.

[Ming]

I was really hoping for the Volt to be loudly applauded as a GM first.

Remember Displacement-on-Demand aka Active Fuel Management, and how it was trumped quietly by Honda a couple of years ago when they dropped it in their Odyssey after GM had been talking loudly about it for some time?

I fear that the Prius plug-in hype may similarly eclipse the Volt. Not to mention the "proven" Toyota Prius nameplate vs. a revolutionary Chevy.

I do think it is important to note that the Volt is a very different car (I actually know little about the Plug-In Prius, so I'm not qualified to say just how different it is), but I hope that the media and public realize this, and that GM effectively advertises the difference and the economic or other benefits of the Volt.

[RamJet502]

If the Toyota plug-in hybrid is cheaper than the Volt with similar mpg ratings GM is toast.

[Bvonscott]

Maybe GM should up the timetable for the plug-in Vue to beat toyoda. It cant be that difficult adding the plug to the two-mode system.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by Bvonscott

Maybe GM should up the timetable for the plug-in Vue to beat toyoda. It cant be that difficult adding the plug to the two-mode system.

They have up the time table, toyota's will be fleet only. Is Toyota useing litium ion batteries because if they are the car is going too cost more.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

Sadly, GM is hardly in the hybrid race yet. The Two-Mode system is excellent but sales so far are tiny.

I applaud the Volt, but not the hype, but where it is at in hybrids at present is where Toyota dominates . . . with the Prius . . . and Honda will be entering this segment early next year.

Honda's hybrid system is a mild system, it's not a full system, it's very similar to GM's BAS system. Gm's Two mode System wasn't design for car's, the BAS+/ 2Gen two mode will be a lot better. What's slowing gm down is batteries, they have the system's not the batteries, that's were the Saturn Vue Plug in come's in.

[Glass Half full]

it doesn't matter who gets to the market first. What matters is who delivers. A plug-in prius will not have the efficiency to justify the price premium over a regular prius. Not to mention the fact that it wont look any different from a regular prius. If anything this can be an advantage for GM in two ways. It will improve the perception towards electric vehicles just in time for the Volt release not to mention free publicity. This would benchmark the plug in prii, thus letting GM launch the volt with a Bang. Imagine Volt ads trouncing the plug in prius. 5 times the range, great FE , but not ugly !!

[Wolfman01]

Originally Posted by Buick Riviera

Honda's hybrid system is a mild system, it's not a full system, it's very similar to GM's BAS system. Gm's Two mode System wasn't design for car's, the BAS+/ 2Gen two mode will be a lot better. What's slowing gm down is batteries, they have the system's not the batteries, that's were the Saturn Vue Plug in come's in.

GM's BAS and Honda's IMA are not similar systems. The IMA motor is sandwiched in between the engine and transmission in place of the flywheel. IMA is substantially stronger than BAS, allowing Honda to use a much smaller engine than what GM can use with BAS. As for BAS, GM's system is substantially limited by the fact that their system transmits power through the serpentine belt. BAS will not be much more than an idle stop system for GM.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

If the Toyota plug-in hybrid is cheaper than the Volt with similar mpg ratings GM is toast.

Never a truer word spoken... GM needs to WIN and DOMINATE this race...

There is going to be demand for this vehicle the ultimate winner will be whoever can maximize production....

The winner will not be whoever is firstest... it will be whoever is the mostest.

[tgagneguam]

I actually agree with Lutz on an issue for once. The problem is the difference between the powertrains will be hard to explain to most consumers, and I'm certain Toyota still will be perceived as setting the pace of hybrid advancement. If GM had strong marketing, I bet it could deliver the message and set GM apart. But we all know that GM marketing isn't quite up to the task of advertising regular cars, so telling the story of the Volt will be a nearly impossible task for them.

And for what it's worth, based on the PR benefits, I do think it's important who gets their plug-in to market first.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by Wolfman01

GM's BAS and Honda's IMA are not similar systems. The IMA motor is sandwiched in between the engine and transmission in place of the flywheel. IMA is substantially stronger than BAS, allowing Honda to use a much smaller engine than what GM can use with BAS. As for BAS, GM's system is substantially limited by the fact that their system transmits power through the serpentine belt. BAS will not be much more than an idle stop system for GM.

Hello, the BAS+ can handle a small engine diplacement.

[chakis24]

isnt the plug in vue due out in 2009?

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by chakis24

isnt the plug in vue due out in 2009?

Yes!!!

[Jayorbird]

Originally Posted by Buick Riviera

Yes!!!

How the MPG will get on that VUE plug-in????