GM hearts Planet Green

[ogg vorbis]

about planet green - i hate commercialism and propaganda of any kind. however, if toyota can make people think the prius grows from the ground and is an organic, high source of fiber, then i give gm my blessings

[stevecmh]

nice to see they are trying hard.

they need to get some of the attention from toyota

[AndrewGS]

I'm really hating the term "green". I like the practices it entails, but the term is so overused. I'm all for higher efficiency, recycling and conservation, but damn, quit calling it "green".

[milton112c]

It's not about whether or not the world is going though a "global warming" period. Over millions of years the Earth has been in a cycle, cooling and warming, and there's no doubt about that. The Earth would be warming right now whether we were on the Earth or not. The real question is, how much are we accelerating the process? I mean the millions (if not billions) of tons of CO2 we put in the atmosphere every year has to affect the Earth in one way or another. GM being behind this green thing is good cause right now people think of GM as non-environmentally friendly (even though most cars are on par with foreign MPGs). They need to change this perception to increase interest and sales in their models.

[Whitesky]

Originally Posted by slade'man

I dont know about you guys but I am tired of this whole "green" movement. I am still not convinced we are the cause of global warming. I hate that every place I go they are in some way advertising it. It is more of a trend now, of who can be the greeniest. GM has to advertise this way though, gas prices are helping promote this "clean energy" because people are begining to think its cheaper and helps the environment.

Same here. It's a fad and an annoying one at that. But the majority of the public are sheep so GM has to go along with the fad or the sheep won't follow.

[escaladelover]

Originally Posted by slade'man

I dont know about you guys but I am tired of this whole "green" movement. I am still not convinced we are the cause of global warming. I hate that every place I go they are in some way advertising it. It is more of a trend now, of who can be the greeniest. GM has to advertise this way though, gas prices are helping promote this "clean energy" because people are begining to think its cheaper and helps the environment.

You speak the truth, now I'm all for the enviorment, but this is getting more commercialized then ever before.

[poncho1982]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

You are aware that automobiles are NOT the largest contributor to global CO2, right? That industry such as electricity production is a larger component to global pollution?

Let's blame cars for everything, who cares about facts.

Now then...if we are permitted to build Hydroelectric and Nuclear plants, then we can talk about banning cars, or even better, electric cars like the Volt.



Bless you. Global Warmig acolytes won't even acknowledge that we have a parent star.

I know, I get so sick of that. People should really learn to objectively listen to both sides of a story, and look deeper into the facts.

[poncho1982]

Originally Posted by ogg vorbis

a discussion is only pointless if one side isn't listening. all of your points are valid. he's saying that the government has alterior motives for regulating pollution and fuel economy...and global warming is a 'convenient' tool. they can't just come out and say americans eat too much, use too much gas, use too much electricity, etc.

SAE magazine printed a report by MIT saying that ALL human transportation is responsible for 0.1% of all global CO2 emissions...cars respresenting 1/3 of that, and planes/tankers the rest. thanks to china, the number of cars will DOUBLE in the next 20 years, increasing total output to 0.133%. if you spent your own money on attacking the pollution problem, would you spend it on the smallest fraction, of a negligible quantity? i wouldn't be that dumb. planting a tree for every car sold would do more. they say a squirrel used to be able to go from boston to florida without touching the ground...now those trees are cookie cutter houses in suburbs. 2/3 of the world's trees have been cut down in the last 100 years.

you're absolutely correct that air quality is very important. did you know that emissions devices kill about 20% of an engine's fuel economy? is the tradeoff worth it? diesels aren't in north america because until recently diesel fuel had too much sulfur. doubling mileage, and lower CO2 emissions weren't good enough trade offs?!

shouldn't we stop urban sprawl? it forces people to commute longer distances, use more fuel, increase the probability of collisions, and wastes valuable arable land...so as the population expands (pun intended), the land to feed them shrinks. we should be building vertically.

the government is exercising way too much power over manufacturers. high gas prices will naturally force a change to more efficient vehicles - for the sake of saving money, not for any other reason.

I thank you for injecting some intelligence into this deiscussion. The industrial age has casused the "bad air days" and the car came along about the same time, so it is convienient to blame cars, because thats what we see everyday, rather than that electric plant in Mexico pumping out God knows what.

love that last paragraph by the way!!

[Smilingoat]

Originally Posted by slade'man

I dont know about you guys but I am tired of this whole "green" movement. I am still not convinced we are the cause of global warming. I hate that every place I go they are in some way advertising it. It is more of a trend now, of who can be the greeniest. GM has to advertise this way though, gas prices are helping promote this "clean energy" because people are begining to think its cheaper and helps the environment.

global warming is not the only cause of greenhouse gasses and pollutants within the air. cancers, heart complications, sinus issues, and asthma have all been directly connected to air pollution. there is more than one reason to hop on board and support a "green" sustainable future. it doesn't make you any less of a "car guy" "patriot" or a "man" to admit that we are causing problems for not only future generation but also this generation. the day that everything has no emissions is the day you can go out for a walk and not have a scratchy throat when your done. in that case, color me green.

[Smilingoat]

Originally Posted by escaladelover

You speak the truth, now I'm all for the enviorment, but this is getting more commercialized then ever before.

you have to sell it, if we want clean fresh air everywhere, we have to make it popular to like those things, it will be better for our health, and as mentioned above many other things. just because its popular, and it happens to be something an opposing group might also agree with (green party) doesnt mean that its BAD to also fight for it.

nobody is going to be at a loss if we make it a goal to a more sustainable future, it's amazing to see people actually argue in FAVOR of pollution.

[953228]

Originally Posted by Smilingoat

you have to sell it, if we want clean fresh air everywhere, we have to make it popular to like those things, it will be better for our health, and as mentioned above many other things. just because its popular, and it happens to be something an opposing group might also agree with (green party) doesnt mean that its BAD to also fight for it.

nobody is going to be at a loss if we make it a goal to a more sustainable future, it's amazing to see people actually argue in FAVOR of pollution.

I'll take pollution and our way of life over clean air and living in a grass hut heated by burning ox dung. It's all about balance. I am not for plunging the US economey into the dark ages to save the planet only to wake up and find out that China is the worlds lone superpower. I want to address pollution without bowing to the "Global Climate Crisis" Also, do you really belive that CO2 is a pollutant? You can fix all those other things that have been mentioned without worrying about plant food. I think the motives of those who want to cap CO2 emmissions are very suspect.

[SirRaven]

Originally Posted by ogg vorbis

a discussion is only pointless if one side isn't listening. all of your points are valid. he's saying that the government has alterior motives for regulating pollution and fuel economy...and global warming is a 'convenient' tool. they can't just come out and say americans eat too much, use too much gas, use too much electricity, etc.

SAE magazine printed a report by MIT saying that ALL human transportation is responsible for 0.1% of all global CO2 emissions...cars respresenting 1/3 of that, and planes/tankers the rest. thanks to china, the number of cars will DOUBLE in the next 20 years, increasing total output to 0.133%. if you spent your own money on attacking the pollution problem, would you spend it on the smallest fraction, of a negligible quantity? i wouldn't be that dumb. planting a tree for every car sold would do more. they say a squirrel used to be able to go from boston to florida without touching the ground...now those trees are cookie cutter houses in suburbs. 2/3 of the world's trees have been cut down in the last 100 years.

you're absolutely correct that air quality is very important. did you know that emissions devices kill about 20% of an engine's fuel economy? is the tradeoff worth it? diesels aren't in north america because until recently diesel fuel had too much sulfur. doubling mileage, and lower CO2 emissions weren't good enough trade offs?!

shouldn't we stop urban sprawl? it forces people to commute longer distances, use more fuel, increase the probability of collisions, and wastes valuable arable land...so as the population expands (pun intended), the land to feed them shrinks. we should be building vertically.

the government is exercising way too much power over manufacturers. high gas prices will naturally force a change to more efficient vehicles - for the sake of saving money, not for any other reason.

Great Post

Look at all of the factories around the us that were built 10 or more years ago. Now those things are inefficient and need to be replaced. That would make a much greater dent in pollution as well as oil consumption that the small changes that are being made to the automobile.

Its funny people are like how come a Geo Metro from the early 90's can get such great fuel economy. Well because it cant meet all of the standards new cars have to meet in the way of crash test and have all the electronics most consumers want. As well as have half the power most Americans want in a car they dont need.

I hate how society aims and shoots themselves in the foot then tries to blame the guy that made the gun.