GM 2-Mode Hybrid System Cost Estimated @ $10,000; May Force GM To Subsidize Sales

[Perian]

Link: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../70706032/1128

GM may eat hybrid cost: Goal is to make technology affordable for consumers
Jamie LaReau - Automotive News - July 9, 2007 - 12:01 am

DETROIT - General Motors might absorb some costs of a Two Mode hybrid transmission in its full-sized trucks to make the technology affordable to consumers, product chief Bob Lutz says.

The automaker plans to have at least three hybrid transmissions and offer as many as a dozen hybrid models in the next few years. The Two Mode system, which has two electric motors that assist the engine, would be the premium system, Lutz said.

The cost of that system is more than $10,000, sources close to the program say.

Nearly every Cadillac product could feature a hybrid variant as early as the next two years, Lutz, GM's vice chairman of global product development, said in an interview with Automotive News.

The program has not been approved. But, Lutz said, it's "very logical to assume" that a hybrid drivetrain would fit in nearly all Cadillac vehicles, starting with the Escalade SUV next year.

GM's hybrid plans do not include the Chevrolet Volt concept car, which the automaker classifies as an electric car with a range assist. The Volt would run on electric power, with a gasoline, diesel or fuel cell engine recharging batteries.

Full article at link.

[SuperSS27]

Damn...thats a lot of loot for a hybrid system.

[K-1]

The original Prius wasn't much cheaper.

[ByTheLake]

E85 makes more sense than "all the hybrids in the world" - Bob Lutz, March 2006

"Toyota has said, economically, hybrids make no sense. The reduction in fuel [consumption] does not pay for the technological content and cost of the vehicle so therefore economically it remains fairly nonsensical" - Bob Lutz, July, 2006

"Nearly every Cadillac product could feature a hybrid variant as early as the next two years" - Bob Lutz, July 2007

Looks like GM is getting dragged into the hybrid game, kicking and screaming.

[A.J.]

$10,000 just for the full-size SUVs? Or is the two-mode system that much for other applications as well?

The 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, even though it's a smaller vehicle, costs about $8,000 more than the base, and the Hybrid Limited almost $10,000. The same goes for the Camry hybrid, which is $8,000 over the base.

IMO, if GM can somehow cut the price down to $8- or $7,000, that would be good.

[Perian]

Originally Posted by ByTheLake

Looks like GM is getting dragged into the hybrid game, kickinig and screaming.

It's become Marketing 101.

Take a look at the size of the "Hybrid" emblems on the 08 Malibu Hybrid.

.

[gmlr]

The true cost is much less, GM must ramp up hybrid and volt type production to get a true cost. $10,000 could be the cost for 1000 or 20000 two modes but for 1 or 2 million it could be $2000 or $4000. Also GM must make sure the Volt is E100 ready at launch in the U.S..

[I-Love-Pontiac]

We'll just raise the fuel economy standard to 35 MPG. It's barely going to have any effect on the price of cars really. The automakers can do better.

[E. Haskell]

Why so much - didn't they share development cost with DCX and BMW?

[BlueMontreal]

Put 2-modes in expensive vehicles. Offer BAS in smaller cars.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Why so much - didn't they share development cost with DCX and BMW?

They did. I believe the $10K figure refers to the cost of making all the components, and perhaps the costs related to bringing it to production. GM spent a ton of money revamping factories, training people, and so forth. It doesn't really suprise me. I certainly hope as production numbers increase, the cost per unit can come down.

[tom3]

Well, $10,000 price add on the Escalade won't deter future owners as long as there is a prominent "Hybrid" badge on the back. It's all about image and status anyway. Nothing wrong with building profitable vehicles. Good move.

[jkennedy293]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Why so much - didn't they share development cost with DCX and BMW?

Its not just a recoup of R&D, which I heard was in the billions, but also the cost of the parts. Batteries and industrial size electric motors are still expensive. Add to that the computers and extra install time, and it really starts to add up.

This number should go down once economies of scale are reached. With three manufacturers producing the same, or near same, product, costs should come down rather quickly.

[69Firebird400]

Originally Posted by A.J.

$10,000 just for the full-size SUVs? Or is the two-mode system that much for other applications as well?

The 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid, even though it's a smaller vehicle, costs about $8,000 more than the base, and the Hybrid Limited almost $10,000. The same goes for the Camry hybrid, which is $8,000 over the base.

IMO, if GM can somehow cut the price down to $8- or $7,000, that would be good.

I haven't compared Highlander vs Highlander Hybrid prices, but the cost of the hybrid system in the Camry Hybrid is not $8000 if you factor in the extra equipment that the Hybrid includes. They're not sticking the HSD parts into a base Camry, but one more closely aligned with the XLE.

According to TrueDelta, the difference is more like $1400 in terms of MSRP. What we don't know is whether Toyota is eating some of the cost of the hybrid drivetrain. I suspect that they have done this in the past, but they're at the point where they are selling more and more hybrids, and have been doing it for a while, so it seems possible they are able to make them more cheaply than GM would be able to (especially since GM's system seems to be a better system).

Bob Lutz did say that the two mode hybrid system costs as much as a small car a few months ago. He wasn't kidding. I really hope they can eat some of the cost, or they'll never sell them for $10k.

Edit: Just checked TrueDelta for the Highlander Hybrid premium - that one is more like $4,000.

[motorman]

this just proves there is no"free lunch" to get better fuel mileage and there will be few people willing to pay the price. most people with common sense know all the global warming and the oil is running out is all a political game. if the libs win the white house in 08 you will not hear any more about it because they know if all this proposed rules are implemented the country will go into a depression and they do not want that to happen on their watch