The future of fuel will arrive next year

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

Thanks for the information zeozinger.

I was always told that Ethanol could not be transported via pipeline because it attracts - and absorbs - water. And that since those pipelines need to be flushed out and maintained periodically it would contaminate the ethanol and make it less effective. It was for this reason that most ethanol is trucked rather than shipped out in pipelines etc.

Was I mislead? Are there any plans to create a dedicated ethanol pipeline anywhere in the US?

Thanks for the info!

Dakotas to Midwest to East Coast Ethanol Pipeline In The Works

[Knucklehead]

Originally Posted by psece

Not one technology will get us out from under the rock. We will need all of them to be resource independent.

Another nice feature of this process is that it consumes CO2. Either from the atmosphere or from a alternate source(manufacturing plant, etc). Also, it uses treated manure as nutrients for the algae. And the amount of energy used is 1 unit for every 8 units produced.

One question, how are they going to get Saltwater in the New Mexico Sonora desert?

What about on the coast of Baja California? Plenty of seawater and sunlight and not very population dense. What is important is the output of fresh water. In conjunction with or as a desalinization plant is a huge item. Previously arid unusable land now has manufacturing and fresh water.....

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by logansowner

They are talking about a 1B gallon/yr plant, not their test plant. When I figure American gas usage at 21 million bpd that brings me to a need for 322 of these plants to replace all gasoline usage, which isn't the goal anyway.

But by all means, since this technology wont replace 100% of our fuel usage, we should ignore it.

if they build enough of these plants along with other ways to reduce our oil use then we could potentially remove the need to borrow money from China to buy oil from other nations like Canada, Saudi, and Mexico.

[txturbo]

If we could make enough to supply our military fuel usage, then we would have something.

[SuperSS27]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Here is another 'order of magnitude' perspective.

Just to cut our usage by 20% we'd need 7000 of these plants at 1000 acres each across the US at a cost of about $7 Trillion.

However there are only about 3500 county or 'county equivalents' in the entire US. That means each and every one of these would have to set aside 2000 acres!! ( NYC, Chicago, LA, Rhode Island, etc ) in order to produce this bio-ethanol. Rots of Ruck.

The technology is promising but it has to be far far more productive, by at least a factor of 10 or 20 or 50.

No where in the article does it say anything about 1000 acres per plant. Nowhere does it say how big the plant actually is either. So all your numbers are way off.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Masospaghetti

While hybrids hold some future, how many hybrids would there have to be to make a dent in our oil usage? How many extra batteries would that require? How many batteries is that going to produce when they have to be replaced? And, maybe most importantly, how much of a drain is that going to be on the economy? Even with $4 gas, a Prius won't make back its additional cost in fuel over a Corolla. This tells me that the amount of extra equipment necessary to yield that fuel economy increase is not economically sound.

I'm not saying hybrids will never make sense. But the current generation don't.

C'mon you need to get into this century. One of the reasons that EVERY vehicle maker now is bringing out at least one if not two or 5 hybrids is that the 'fear of replacement' demon has been killed with a stake through its heart.
The NiMH batteries may never need replacement....certainly not in the 150,000 mile usage range, maybe beyond 250,000 miles.

In case you weren't aware, in the CARB states the hybrid systems have to carry a 10 yr or 150,000 mi warranty. More and more states are joining the CARB wagon train. We wouldn't be seeing GM, Ford and Chrysler all jumping into the hybrid game because they feel that the batteries are going to 'wear out' with use. The 11 years of market experience now shows that these may be the most reliable part of the hybrids.

[SuperSS27]

Originally Posted by Hurricane

Holy cow!!!

By the way, what is 1 billion gallons in barrels?

52,631,579 barrels.

[psece]

Originally Posted by Knucklehead

What about on the coast of Baja California? Plenty of seawater and sunlight and not very population dense. What is important is the output of fresh water. In conjunction with or as a desalinization plant is a huge item. Previously arid unusable land now has manufacturing and fresh water.....

My Stupid. My tired eyes turned NW Mexico into New Mexico.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

...That means each and every one of these would have to set aside 2000 acres!! ( NYC, Chicago, LA, Rhode Island, etc ) in order to produce this bio-ethanol. Rots of Ruck...

Hey, just one minute! Rhode Island is a state, not a county, though it may be considered-poorly, I might add-a "county equivalent." It's small, for sure, but it is a State. It has five whole counties, actually. And, among the 50 states, it has the longest name (The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations), the most shoreline per area of any state in the Union, along with having one of the most densely populated cities in the country (The City of Central Falls, home to many drug users and dealers; hey, it's "big industry" there. Of course, that may be why it's also home to the Wyatt Federal Detention Center, but I digress).

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by SuperSS27

No where in the article does it say anything about 1000 acres per plant. Nowhere does it say how big the plant actually is either. So all your numbers are way off.

The algae has to be grown somewhere on some surface of land ( although underground is a great option as well ) but the article does say....

Among interesting data developed by Algenol and made available to Automotive Industries by spokesperson Evan Smith, is an ethanol production rate already achieved of 6000 gal/acre/yr.

I used 1000 acres as a nominal size to show how much acreage would be needed to produce 6 Million gallons annually. Yes the 'plant' sizes could be 500 or 3000 acres depending on availability. 500 acre plants would produce 1/6 the output of a 3000 acre plant without improved productivity.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by SuperSS27

52,631,579 barrels.

Or.... 4-1/2 days usage of gasoline and diesel.

[smith7629]

Its obvious some people on this blog really don't like ethanol for some reason. A diverse energy portfolio is a winning national goal. Nuclear (not nucular..hee hee), clean coal, wind, solar, bio fuels, natural gas and yes...oil. That way no one industry or group of countries has a strangle hold on us and our politicians.

[logansowner]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Or.... 4-1/2 days usage of gasoline and diesel.

It was a minute last time.

[FBODYRULES]

I saw stuff about this on TV, this is the answer, and also helps clean the air and keep the ocean healthy etc , its the perfect solution for now

[MN12Fan]

What ever happened to Oil Algae?