Ethanol Smear Campaign Exposed in Roll Call Magazine

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

I just hope that cellulosic ethanol can play a helpful stop gap role as we devise a hydrogen and solar economy.

When will these alternate fuels come into play? E85 and to a lesser extent Biodiesel are the nearest things we have to alternative fuels, however most of us don't have a fueling station near us. I keep reading about cellulose ethanol and other alternatives but so far its all talk. We need these alternatives now, not in another few years.

The time for talk is over, either the free market or government needs to get off its ass and offer us other options.

[TheGeneral]

If the average price of regular gas in the USA goes to $4.25 or more everybody and their mother will be making a gasoline substitue.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by TheGeneral

If the average price of regular gas in the USA goes to $4.25 or more everybody and their mother will be making a gasoline substitue.

Its nearly $4.00 here, so if thats the case this should happen before 2009.

[YupYupYup]

PS- A barrel of oil was $27.53 when GW took office.

PPS Taxes were also a lot higher when GW took office than they are today. Geez, you would think some people would realize a) GW is not running for President this year, b) he won twice and will sere the full 8 years and c) no matter how much you yipper-yapper about it is not going to change a damn thing. Move on, please. Geesh.

PPPS...Education = a more infromed, less politically biased statement...The main drivers of oil are a) China and India demand has gone through the roof in the last (see supply and demand), b) world demand has increased with a greater population and more vehicles on the road, c) increasingly less supplies left on the road (that supply and demnd thingy again) and d) a greater amount of taxes imposed by greedy governments on all facets of production and distribution...Or, you could just take the simple-minded approach and blame GW for everything...without ever showing an evidence how that happened.

[YupYupYup]

Gas is more expensive in Canada, Europe, and virtually every other country outside the U.S. It always has been, but people have been too spoiled in America to see that. In fact, we are just paying what Europe paid a long time ago, way before GW was in office or even out of diapers.

Some people don't think...They just blame everyone else for their consumption problems.

[YupYupYup]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

PS- A barrel of oil was $27.53 when GW took office.

I SO wish that the Freedom of Information Act could make public, and BEFORE the elections, the full transcripts of Cheney's secret meetings with top oil energy CEOs in the early days of the Bush/Cheney regime. To go from $27 to $124 a barrel after those meetings and initiating a war now clearly admitted to be based on oil, is, for me, a real head scratcher. But I bet that dude from Exxon with the bizarre Jabba-The-Hut-Turkey-Wattle neck ain't complainin' with his half BILLION dollar take home pay in ONE year! I just hope that cellulosic ethanol can play a helpful stop gap role as we devise a hydrogen and solar economy.[/quote]

Hahahahahahha...Another wacky conspiracy theorist. Bet this guy also believes it was aliens, working with GW, who brought down the twin towers on 9/11. Hahahahahahahaha...Oh, my...

Okay, yup, it is all GW's fault...Blame him...Now that we have the answer, please move on....Geesh, no wonder he got elected again.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

I SO wish that the Freedom of Information Act could make public, and BEFORE the elections, the full transcripts of Cheney's secret meetings with top oil energy CEOs in the early days of the Bush/Cheney regime. To go from $27 to $124 a barrel after those meetings and initiating a war now clearly admitted to be based on oil, is, for me, a real head scratcher. But I bet that dude from Exxon with the bizarre Jabba-The-Hut-Turkey-Wattle neck ain't complainin' with his half BILLION dollar take home pay in ONE year! I just hope that cellulosic ethanol can play a helpful stop gap role as we devise a hydrogen and solar economy.

Hahahahahahha...Another wacky conspiracy theorist. Bet this guy also believes it was aliens, working with GW, who brought down the twin towers on 9/11. Hahahahahahahaha...Oh, my...

Okay, yup, it is all GW's fault...Blame him...Now that we have the answer, please move on....Geesh, no wonder he got elected again. [/quote]


No. Elvis brought down the Twin Towers AND raised oil prices PLUS created bogus satellite photos of WMDs in Iraq before the invasion. He told me that with his intergalactic cell phone from his Malibu-style home deep in a secret crater on the moon blocked from view by NASA satellites using stealth technology passed on down from the Lemurians via Atlantis. I share this despite death threats from the Grays from the Crab Nebula...shhh!

[cmutt]

Gas is more expensive in Canada, Europe, and virtually every other country outside the U.S.

The problem with that comparison, is those 'more socialist' countries are offering their citizens something in return for their higher petro prices: significant things like a national healthcare system. If we are going to pay similarly high prices, then why shouldn't we be expecting a similar level of service?!

The snowball-job that is being fed to the American public is that these prices are primarily the result of supply-and-demand. While supply-and-demand play a part in what we pay, the fact is that the reason our gasoline prices are at this all time 'high' is that the value of our dollar is so low. Crude oil is an international commodity: the less our dollar is worth, the more of them it takes to purchase a barrel of oil.

Try this: compare the price of a barrel of oil with the price of gold. Roughly the same amount of gold buys the same amount of oil today as it did 10 years ago. More proof: what is the value of the dollar vs the Canadian dollar? The Euro? Anybody care to tell me the rate at which our country is printing money? Oh wait: you can't. That measurement (the 'M3') was discontinued under the GBW administration.

Numerous, irresponsible fiscal policies--from tax cuts to excessive spending to a needless and hyper-expensive war have come home to roost in a devalued dollar, and more costly goods: from groceries to gasoline.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by cmutt

The problem with that comparison, is those 'more socialist' countries are offering their citizens something in return for their higher petro prices: significant things like a national healthcare system. If we are going to pay similarly high prices, then why shouldn't we be expecting a similar level of service?!

The snowball-job that is being fed to the American public is that these prices are primarily the result of supply-and-demand. While supply-and-demand play a part in what we pay, the fact is that the reason our gasoline prices are at this all time 'high' is that the value of our dollar is so low. Crude oil is an international commodity: the less our dollar is worth, the more of them it takes to purchase a barrel of oil.

Try this: compare the price of a barrel of oil with the price of gold. Roughly the same amount of gold buys the same amount of oil today as it did 10 years ago. More proof: what is the value of the dollar vs the Canadian dollar? The Euro? Anybody care to tell me the rate at which our country is printing money? Oh wait: you can't. That measurement (the 'M3') was discontinued under the GBW administration.

Numerous, irresponsible fiscal policies--from tax cuts to excessive spending to a needless and hyper-expensive war have come home to roost in a devalued dollar, and more costly goods: from groceries to gasoline.

Excellent overview...thanks! But it does cost a lot to transform a democratic republic into an empire, or so it seems.

[Wolfman01]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

When will these alternate fuels come into play? E85 and to a lesser extent Biodiesel are the nearest things we have to alternative fuels, however most of us don't have a fueling station near us. I keep reading about cellulose ethanol and other alternatives but so far its all talk. We need these alternatives now, not in another few years.

The time for talk is over, either the free market or government needs to get off its ass and offer us other options.

Cellulosic ethanol is far from talk. There were forteen plants announced for construction over the last year. Of these at least two are now up and running. They are small scale pilot plants.

Again, we cannot throw the problem in a microwave oven, and zap up a solution in three minutes. Building facilities takes time, as does setting up the infrastructure to supply the product, as well as the stations to sell the product. I have exactly one place in my immediate reach to fuel my Impala. I've waited several years to see one go up close enough to me to use, and I'm glad that I finally have one. Now I'm needling a few filling stations to open up a pump, as well as the local area dealership to follow Classic's lead.

[osiris]

Ethanol - What a scam!

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Wolfman01

Cellulosic ethanol is far from talk. There were forteen plants announced for construction over the last year. Of these at least two are now up and running. They are small scale pilot plants.

Again, we cannot throw the problem in a microwave oven, and zap up a solution in three minutes. Building facilities takes time, as does setting up the infrastructure to supply the product, as well as the stations to sell the product. I have exactly one place in my immediate reach to fuel my Impala. I've waited several years to see one go up close enough to me to use, and I'm glad that I finally have one. Now I'm needling a few filling stations to open up a pump, as well as the local area dealership to follow Classic's lead.

Even at the rate these plants are being built it just doesn't seem like enough to cut into our oil usage, then you said they are small scale pilot plants. That means by time these plants are fully operation and they start building large scale plants several years will past. Maybe as many as 10 years, by then its going to be way too late. I don't expect this problem to be solved overnight but I just can't see this displacing oil fast enough before we run into severe problems.

[Wolfman01]

Time will tell. I do believe that when these plants prove their worth, large scale ones will be going up very quickly. The pilot plant that just opened in Louisiana is scalable to large scale operation. That one should be able to be expanded very quickly.

I too would like to see ethanol expand more quickly. At this point, however, we've got what we've got.

[PA Dweller]

True, maybe I should be glad we even have Ethanol. I just hope they see how valuable these plants will be soon. We are going to need a lot of this fuel, and soon.

[dratnol]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

I SO wish that the Freedom of Information Act could make public, and BEFORE the elections, the full transcripts of Cheney's secret meetings with top oil energy CEOs in the early days of the Bush/Cheney regime. To go from $27 to $124 a barrel after those meetings and initiating a war now clearly admitted to be based on oil, is, for me, a real head scratcher. But I bet that dude from Exxon with the bizarre Jabba-The-Hut-Turkey-Wattle neck ain't complainin' with his half BILLION dollar take home pay in ONE year! I just hope that cellulosic ethanol can play a helpful stop gap role as we devise a hydrogen and solar economy.

Wow, you cannot FOIA something that did not happen/exist. The war was not "for oil" as you profess not to mention that your conspiracy theory falls apart with the current administration's push to reduce oil dependency.

On topic, I am glad to hear that this was nipped in the bud, the false claims on ethanol are getting to be old. People was an alternative and then they trash any alternative option that comes up.

PS - Why is the quote feature messed up today?