Corn down 25% on news that 2008 crop will be 2nd largest on record; E85 drops 4 cents

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by steined

That being said. Minimum Wage laws hurt farmers as well as keeping out immigrant workers willing to work for low wages.

So you would rather have illegal aliens being treated and paid like slaves harvest your food rather than Americans working for an honest wage? If ADM and Dole could pay aliens $1/hour, they would. The result is that no American could afford a job in agriculture, and the aliens working here would be slaves. That is quite a vision you have for America.

Compare that to how Henry Ford treated his workers building the Model T. He paid Americans a handsome wage and they made Ford very successful. He did not demand open borders so that he could race to the bottom of the wage scale.

[Whitesky]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

Maybe he's referring to all the people paid not to farm their land?

Originally Posted by steined

Farm Subsidies are killing the US. Why do we use corn syrup in Soda? Farm Subsidies. Why is a lot of candy made in Canada? Farm Subsidies Why is sugar too expensive to use as a feedstock for Ethanol? Farm Subsidies Why are people paid to let land go un-used? Farm Subsidies

That being said. Minimum Wage laws hurt farmers as well as keeping out immigrant workers willing to work for low wages. So in some ways I suppose Farm subsidies are a warped way of helping Farmers for piss poor policy in other areas. Just seems like you could do better and save inflation and tax payer dollars by eliminating both.

Originally Posted by TruckMan

I think the main point is that we are being taxed to subsidize something that doesn't need to be subsidized. If we aren't taxed for this purpose, then our money stays in our pockets, which are mostly located in America. If you don't mind being taxed as long as your money stays in America, then please send all your extra cash to me and I will use it to buy an American made Suburban or Tahoe some time next year. Thanks in advance.

Finally we have some intelligence. The previous posters obviously have no understanding of what the farm subsidies are.

[Ed Arcuri]

Our so-called farm subsidies don't subsidize farmers. They subsidize large shareholder owned agribusinesses. They also distort the market's operation (see the previous post re: sugar).
Minimum wage laws don't work. If Congress can raise wages by passing laws, why do they stop at $7.50? Why not make it $75.00 or $750.00? Shucks, then we could all light our cigars with 20 dollar bills. Who'd care? If we ran out of money, Congress could just vote us another pay raise.
Minimum wage laws are a lie that politicians tell to people who are ignorant regarding the economy. Great Britain didn't have a minimum wage law until fairly recently. We didn't notice because it is a prosperous country.
Now we're onto something: wages are paid based on the value of the work performed and the scarcity of those able to perform the work. Airline pilots make more than janitors because more people can drive a broom than can fly an airliner. Airline pilots do not make more money because the airlines want to pay them more nor because of a law - other than a law of economics.
Minimum wage laws do, however, have consequences. One woman complained this year to a Presidential candidate that her hours had been cut back when the minimum wage prescribed by law went up. The candidate did not see the connection, and promised yet another law! Bennigan's, Steak and Ale, Village Inn, and Baker's Square restaurants are all in bankruptcy squeezed by general economic conditions but especially by rises in food costs and mandated wages.
Compassion and concern for farmers and low wage workers is noble. It is not, however, a justification for every government program done in their name.
Cheers,
Ed
"When it comes to math, there are three kinds of people in this world: those that are good at it and those who aren't" Bob Frey

[steined]

Originally Posted by Ed Arcuri

Now we're onto something: wages are paid based on the value of the work performed and the scarcity of those able to perform the work. Airline pilots make more than janitors because more people can drive a broom than can fly an airliner. Airline pilots do not make more money because the airlines want to pay them more nor because of a law - other than a law of economics.

Amen. Let the market decide what the price will be. No one will do the work if the pay isn't high enough. And yes I'd rather have an alien in the US paying taxes making less than minimum wage than paying some farmer in China $.02 a hour to harvest the same product. I'd also rather keep more of the money I EARN than to give it away to subsidies FOR ANYTHING. Who's the slave in that scenario? Me being forced to give up my productivity for someone/something else.

[motorman]

there is so much corn that there are heating stoves that burn corn for the heat. you can grow your way out of using imported oil unlike you can't drill your way out.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

So you would rather have illegal aliens being treated and paid like slaves harvest your food rather than Americans working for an honest wage? If ADM and Dole could pay aliens $1/hour, they would. The result is that no American could afford a job in agriculture, and the aliens working here would be slaves. That is quite a vision you have for America.

Compare that to how Henry Ford treated his workers building the Model T. He paid Americans a handsome wage and they made Ford very successful. He did not demand open borders so that he could race to the bottom of the wage scale.

when legal immigrants, my family, came to this country back in the 1800s they worked for pennies a day at very hard jobs so why should not illegals work for low wages ???? teaches self reliance not like welfare that teaches dependence. remember what happened in the new orleans floods vs the floods in the mid west ????

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by motorman

when legal immigrants, my family, came to this country back in the 1800s they worked for pennies a day at very hard jobs so why should not illegals work for low wages ???? teaches self reliance not like welfare that teaches dependence. remember what happened in the new orleans floods vs the floods in the mid west ????

Flooding the labor market with supply lowers everyone's standard of living. Real wages in the U.S. have been stagnant for decades. This is not a good thing for the macro economy.

Fifty years ago, a worker at a slaughterhouse could support a family. Americans could afford meat and it was not infected with bacteria. Real wages in the slaughterhouse industry have fallen by more than 50%. If you are looking for a job to support your family, those jobs no longer are available. And the quality of the meat has gone down at the same time.

If all you care about is the free market, and getting everything for as cheap as possible, then why not advocate no trade restrictions, and move all manufacturing, production and agriculture overseas? Or simply bring one million Chinese peasants to the Great Plains, and let them do the farming for a dollar a day? Is that your vision of America?

[T-Type]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Flooding the labor market with supply lowers everyone's standard of living. Real wages in the U.S. have been stagnant for decades. This is not a good thing for the macro economy.

Fifty years ago, a worker at a slaughterhouse could support a family. Americans could afford meat and it was not infected with bacteria. Real wages in the slaughterhouse industry have fallen by more than 50%. If you are looking for a job to support your family, those jobs no longer are available. And the quality of the meat has gone down at the same time.

If all you care about is the free market, and getting everything for as cheap as possible, then why not advocate no trade restrictions, and move all manufacturing, production and agriculture overseas? Or simply bring one million Chinese peasants to the Great Plains, and let them do the farming for a dollar a day? Is that your vision of America?

Damn HR, are you getting all liberal on us?????

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by T-Type

Damn HR, are you getting all liberal on us?????

No. There are conservatives and there are neocons. The conservative camp includes Michael Savage, Pat Buchanan and Duncan Hunter. The neocon camp includes George Bush, John McCain and Rush Limbaugh.

I am a conservative. Watch the following video. At first, you may think it is "all liberal". It is not liberal at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jrHPjm4qKM

+ YouTube Video

[TruckMan]

One point I'd like to make is that most illegals don't work for $1 an hour. They usually demand $5 to $7 depending on the work. The savings to the farmer (whoever) is that they don't have to pay the taxes, SS, or all the other overhead associated with an employee. So, they don't really "hire" them. They just go down to the local gas station (wherever), negotiate a rate, throw them in the back of their truck, and drop them off at the end of the day. Some may become regulars, some may never be seen again. There's just no complicated overhead associated with these workers is where the savings comes from.

I don't agree with the "illegal" workers, they should have to pay taxes and SS just like everybody else - especially if they are going to use our Nation's infrastructures and their kids use our public education systems. I also don't agree with raising the minimum wage either. Minimum wage is not intended to support a family. It's for highschool kids working at Walmart for beer and gas money. If you want more money, get an education or a better paying job. Even McDonald's has paid more than minimum wage for years - especially if you get good grades in school.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

The savings to the farmer (whoever) is that they don't have to pay the taxes, SS, or all the other overhead associated with an employee.

(No taxes paid) x 20,000,000 = "The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $1.88 billion per day since September 28, 2007". OK, perhaps a bit of an exaggeration, but you get the point.