Actual facts -- food vs. fuel

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by chakis24

the ONLY reason you get worse mpg in an E85 engine is because that engine is not optimized for ethanol- it runs on both gas and ethanol. an engine that is engineered to run solely on ethanol is no different in anyway than one that runs on gas.

Bingo.

And I can tell you from experience that propane is the same. Everyone tells me how my mileage must have dropped (it didn't) after converting to propane from gasoline, after reading how dual systems always afford less mileage, because you can't tune properly for either. My car is propane only, and for that very reason.

There are soooo many people that know soooo much more about my propane powered GM car than I do that it is impossible to count them.

[ctaylorzl1]

I dont even know what to say about these arguments anymore. I am getting so tired of them. I think it is a great article, and totally agree. But most(or all) people have formed their own opinion on this subjet, and are not gonna change their minds about it! As a farmer, I have strong feelings on it but and tired of voicing them on deaf ears. Either way, good article.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

Bingo.

And I can tell you from experience that propane is the same. Everyone tells me how my mileage must have dropped (it didn't) after converting to propane from gasoline, after reading how dual systems always afford less mileage, because you can't tune properly for either. My car is propane only, and for that very reason.

There are soooo many people that know soooo much more about my propane powered GM car than I do that it is impossible to count them.

ok, question. where do you go to fill up? or can you just connect a propane tank for the grille and be done with it?

[bigtime]

These stupid facts are suppose to make me feel better how? We're still getting bent over. I would be more inclined to believe these numbers if all this corn and wheat production were somehow LOWERING the cost of fuel. I mean lowering more than a lousy $13. Its not. So either congress needs to call Tony the Tiger in front of a subcomittee or its all a load of crap.

BTW, how did merrill lynch calculate that number? Thats amazing considering the volatility of oil prices. I mean, if the CEO of Exxon farts it seems to send prices up $13 a barrel. Also ask merrill lynch how much commodities trading they do. An indepenedent source would be more impressive, someone without an interest in both of the commodities in question.

Food should be used for what it was meant for, to eat. Sooner rather than later there will be a crisis which will cause a drastic reduction in corn and wheat production. Then what? Drinking our biofuel? The world needs all the corn and wheat it can produce for food. I don't think a starving family in Thailand gives a flying flip about your stupid numbers and stats.

Food is a necessity and fuel for vehicles is a luxury.

Not to mention we have only just begun to see a rise in food costs. Wait until this time next year when beef prices are through the roof. Hope you idiots like chicken.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by chakis24

ok, question. where do you go to fill up? or can you just connect a propane tank for the grille and be done with it?

About half the gas stations here carry it, so it's the same as how you fill up.

In the US, I use truck stops if possible, and if not, propane stores.

As for the BBQ bottle, I have a fitting (cost $43) that will allow me to fill from one, yes. I have never used it though, except to see if it works, and it does.

The mileage is very close to what the car did when it ran on gasoline, and the only real difference is that the tank is now 32 US gallons rather than the original 18.

[johnstarnes]

A prime reason I greatly prefer cellulosic ethanol made from plant wastes to ethanol made from dent corn is that corn is a very thirsty hungry plant, and aquifers and rivers all around the US are being depleted rapidly. Plus the run off from corn fields contribute significantly to the growing "dead zones" in the Gulf of Mexico that provide so much of our seafood. As a gardener and environmentalist, I find those very high prices to pay for ethanol that could instead be made from the vast amount of wood and crop waste currently being discarded.

[psece]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

A prime reason I greatly prefer cellulosic ethanol made from plant wastes to ethanol made from dent corn is that corn is a very thirsty hungry plant, and aquifers and rivers all around the US are being depleted rapidly. Plus the run off from corn fields contribute significantly to the growing "dead zones" in the Gulf of Mexico that provide so much of our seafood. As a gardener and environmentalist, I find those very high prices to pay for ethanol that could instead be made from the vast amount of wood and crop waste currently being discarded.

Very much agree and this should be the argument against the use of corn. But lets not be stupid about the reasons that food prices have gone up. People need the facts to make smart choices. And there is a lot of BS being put out by people who have ulterior motives...

[tamatt27]

Originally Posted by bigtime

Food is a necessity and fuel for vehicles is a luxury.
Not to mention we have only just begun to see a rise in food costs. Wait until this time next year when beef prices are through the roof. Hope you idiots like chicken.

How do you plan to get food from the crops (or ranch), to the plant, to the stores, and yourself get to the store? Transportation equipment doesn't run on smiles and rainbows.