$4.00 Gas A Reality

[nascarnate326]

ouch, thats gonna hurt my dad and his burb

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by Coloradokid

What are we going to do with the 1,000,000 people or so that will loose their jobs when the Big Three go belly up? Are you willing to pay higher taxes to cover their welfare checks?

What welfare checks? Ever heard of the Great Depression (even though that's an oxymoron)? Do you know how many people died during the Depression? Are you ready to see it again? Well, if the Big 3 go belly up, they've no one to blame but themselves and their complacency. They are the ones that kept building the easy-money SUV's when the trend was towards smaller and more fuel-efficient cars, but then, you aren't a true American if you don't own a full-size something. Why is it always some outside force that we blame? The problem lies with US, not from some external force. We need to change our habits/behaviors now, while it's easy instead of when we have to.

[editor]

It is obvious to most of you just how cheap gasoline is here compared to the rest of the world. The only nations where it is cheaper than the U.S. are countries that actively subsidize the cost of gasoline so as to keep their restive populations happy. Or, at the very least, less unhappy.

But, still, there are a great many consumers in the U.S. that really have no idea just how good they've had it, for so long, regarding gasoline prices. Although they're vaguely aware that gasoline costs more in other places, they're blissfully unaware just how much more.

So, there is going be a lot more kicking, a lot more vitriol, and a lot more gnashing of teeth on this subject. It's going to be very difficult for some people to let go of what they view as their god-given right to cheap gas.

From their point of view it's their right to drive whatever they want as often as they want, and there just better be enough cheap gasoline to them to do it. I mean, they're Americans, right? Appealing to this sense of national entitlement has gotten a lot of politicians elected, and even suggesting the "S" word, that is, "sacrifice", or the "C" word, that is, "conservation", is a good way to lose an election.

So, there will be some wrenching change for this group of people if gasoline prices continue to rise. It's going to be tough for them if they have to accept having to drive a smaller car, or, just driving less in general.

Cheap gas in the U.S. has lasted a long time, but it has to end sometime, whether that's this year, next year, or five years from now.

[Coloradokid]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

What welfare checks? Ever heard of the Great Depression (even though that's an oxymoron)? Do you know how many people died during the Depression? Are you ready to see it again? Well, if the Big 3 go belly up, they've no one to blame but themselves and their complacency. They are the ones that kept building the easy-money SUV's when the trend was towards smaller and more fuel-efficient cars, but then, you aren't a true American if you don't own a full-size something. Why is it always some outside force that we blame? The problem lies with US, not from some external force. We need to change our habits/behaviors now, while it's easy instead of when we have to.

Well if not with welfare checks, we will pay in other ways. Less taxes for schools, roads, and other public goods; higher crime; lower resale value;, etc. Like you, I am sure that you want the most money possible when you sell your house, but do not want to pay property taxes that drive you out of it when you are living there.

Why blame the Big Three for selling SUVs? They are no more culpable than these oil companies that are gouging the public with the blessing of "W" and are in essence destroying the auto manufacturing sector in this country in the process.

Face it, the 1950s and 1960s was better for all Americans economically. People could support a hosuehold on one income, there was unbridaled optimism, and our children had a future. Today's young people will be the first generation of Americans to earn less than their parents, and that is just the start. When we loose our industry, the Great Depression will look like a picnic.

[sigma]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

What welfare checks? Ever heard of the Great Depression (even though that's an oxymoron)? Do you know how many people died during the Depression? Are you ready to see it again? Well, if the Big 3 go belly up, they've no one to blame but themselves and their complacency. They are the ones that kept building the easy-money SUV's when the trend was towards smaller and more fuel-efficient cars, but then, you aren't a true American if you don't own a full-size something. Why is it always some outside force that we blame? The problem lies with US, not from some external force. We need to change our habits/behaviors now, while it's easy instead of when we have to.

Wow... just because we build more mass transit doesn't mean that the big three will go belly up. That's is an assine arguement. People will still buy cars because mass transit can't go everywhere. People will still buy trucks. This just provides an alternative to getting in your car and living in it for 3 hours a day.

[importedtuna]

Originally Posted by Coloradokid

Why blame the Big Three for selling SUVs?

They don't just sell them, they market the heck out of them. And then tell us that we want them. I think there's some cause and effect going on. Its not all as consumer-driven as they'd have you believe.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by sigma

Wow... just because we build more mass transit doesn't mean that the big three will go belly up. That's is an assine arguement. People will still buy cars because mass transit can't go everywhere. People will still buy trucks. This just provides an alternative to getting in your car and living in it for 3 hours a day.

Where did I say that? Someone was trying to illicit sympathy for the Big Three if they went belly up due to rising fuel prices, which if they did it would be their own fault for not adapting to the market. Or, maybe you weren't talking to me.....

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by Coloradokid

Why blame the Big Three for selling SUVs?

Because for too many years the Big 3 have focused on the easy money of SUV's and the American appetite for cheap fuel. Now that those days are numbered, they should be adapting to the changing market, instead they're pushing their new 5000lb CUV's and talking about a new Hummer they're thinking of building. Stupidity.

[AZian]

This does not scare me at all. In fact, I am relieved at the fact that many ignorant people in America have finally awaken to the fact that our lifestyles in this country are fragile. However, I find it shameful that it took $4 USD gasoline to do the trick. Now we just need to get these rednecks who drive their crewcab vortec silverados to work from the suburbs by themselves! What a waste.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

B.S. How will that solve the problem? It'll lower the price, sure....until demand surpasses the 'freed up amount'. The price is higher because it costs more to get the crude out of the ground, not because there aren't enough Kwik-E-Marts in your neighborhood. I once bought gas from a Sinclair station in Wyoming located about 22 miles from a Sinclair refinery. Now, this was 1989 and gas, I believe was $1.02 or so....well, not at the Sinclair station, it was $2.06. Guess it cost a lot to tote it 22 miles. It's easy to blame this on the 'Greenies' because, by God, everyone needs a conspiracy theory to help them sleep at night, but it has nothing to do with the EPA. Why, if you are making record profits as an oil company, would you build more refineries to bring the cost of your product down? And we all know that oil companies are only in business because they care about us, it has nothing to do with money. What. Ever.

You are obviously bias (and so bias you are in fact laughable). Anyone who doesn't say it is the following things (ALL OF THEM) is full of crap.

More expensive to get out of the ground (Blame Greens, and Demand)
Not enough refineries (Blame Greens)
Oil companies greedy (Blame Oil Executives)
Demand is increasing (Blame China and India)

So if you are Green, DO NOT think you can take the "Moral Highground," as you are just as guilty as the Greedy Oil Executive.

Also, anyone who thinks a President has this much control over anything (regarding other posts), obviously doesn't know the Constitution. Seriously, the President has little to no effect on Domestic policy. That is CONGRESS. So instead of slapping every President on the back from FDR, to Ike, to JFK, to Regan, to Clinton for doing a good job domestically, thank the respective congresses that where under them.

[Wolfman01]

Originally Posted by MNdudeswitz

I hear ya, I am lucky that I have something like that:







Its just blocks from my house

YUCK!!! Living in a crowed, stinking, city full of people no matter where you look. Cramming yourself in a stinking train full of people to get to and from work, and having to push and shove your way around stores full of people. NO THANKS!!!!!

Sirens and traffic do not permeate the air where I live. The sound of toads singing alongside my stock tank does. Oh, and I can actually see STARS in the sky at night.

I'll just continue to carpool thank you very much.

[Pucks]

Originally Posted by sigma

The US is going to have to get over its obsession with subburbs, 12- lane interstates (that are always parking lots by the time they are finished), and cars.

We are going to have to start doing some serious urban planning, verticle construction and a massive expansion of mass transit which should not only connect the inner cities, but also link the subburbs to the cities.

I know everyone likes to rail on San Francisco and the Bay Area in general (or the Metropolis known as the Eastern Seaboard from DC to Boston) but they do have mass transit and verticle construction figured out. For a great example as to how this works google BART (or just click on the link).

When the median house is $800k in SF and a one bedroom apartment in NY costs 2grand a month to rent (for a complete dump), the suburbs aren't going away.

[Slack]

I will probably catch hell over this, but, I think the higher gas prices are a good thing. As much as we Americans waste fuel by driving oversized, exxagerated vehicles for reasons that nowhere near match our needs, this may be the only way to temper our thirst for oil. I live about 5 miles from work. I only fill my car up every 2-3 weeks. I understand some people don't want to live that close to other people, and to them I say, Fill 'er up. Consequence is our need. No one makes you drive a big truck or SUV 40 miles to work everyday. Big deal if you don't like it. Do you think the people living during the Great Depression liked the sacrifices they had to make? Hell no. We will use up oil, gas prices will go up, vehicles will get smaller, and no amount of whinning about how you pull a trailer once a year or take Little Johny and his friends to soccer is going to change that.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by Pucks

When the median house is $800k in SF and a one bedroom apartment in NY costs 2grand a month to rent (for a complete dump), the suburbs aren't going anyway.

Or the large city has crappy schools and an ineffective government, like Detroit.

Seriously, the suburbs will never die here.

[Pucks]

Originally Posted by Family Man

Unfortunately, I do not see any positive signs from the US economy that will stop the drop in value; slowing economy, default mortages, higher consumer and government debt will continue to push the dollar down.

Well, this might apply to Canada, but they how do you explain the Euro zone? That economy is a joke yet the Euro is killing the dollar. I mean the economies of France and Germany will never go anywhere with the 35 hr workweeks, guaranteed everything, etc.