$4.00 Gas A Reality

[SkiPopeye36]

Originally Posted by kenman923

I would think that we are not too far away from $4.00 per gallon. It will get to the point that soon, people won't be able to afford to go to work.

No offense, but that's a pretty uneducated comment. That statement's only true if you make less a month than it takes to gas your car/truck/suv to get you to work each month. If that's the case, you wouldn't be in a position to own a car in the first place...

[VivienM]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

I know Canada is spread out a lot more than we are, but we aren't talking about putting in mass transit between every State or Province, we can't be connected on that level, but to deny the need for some sort of fail-safe mass public transportation network is just plain foolish.

Canada is LESS spread out than the United States...

The way this country works, you have
- cities (as dense, if not more so, than U.S. cities)
- suburbs (probably denser than American ones because the houses/lots are smaller)
- some smaller towns with not that many people (way fewer such towns than in the U.S. I think)
- large amounts of essentially empty space that bring down the average population density numbers (way more empty space than in most US states except for Montana, Alaska, etc.)

Keep in mind that something like 80% of Canadians live within 1-2 hours of the U.S. border, too...

[VivienM]

Originally Posted by Family Man

Back in the mid 90s, I remember filling my car is SC for slightly less than $1 a gal. At that time, gas sold here anywhere between $1.40 to $1.70 US a gal ( between .50 and .60 cents a liter cdn).

The price here in Montreal today is $1.09 a litre, or about $3.70 a gallon, a little more than double from the 90s. However stories of fuel prices in the US seen to idicate that Americans are paying almost triple what it cost...

Main culprit? I'm no econimist, but I think a large reason is due to the depreciating US dollar. In the mid 90s, it cost the Americans 73 cents to buy one canadian dollar. Today, it now costs almost 90 cents. Not only do american have to deal with the higher price of crude, but the exchange rates must also be factored in.

Also, keep in mind taxes are higher in Canada. Most fuel taxes are on a per litre/gallon basis, so the higher taxes, the smaller the portion of the pump price that reflects volatile oil price movements...

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by Family Man

Unfortunately, I do not see any positive signs from the US economy that will stop the drop in value; slowing economy, default mortages, higher consumer and government debt will continue to push the dollar down.

But we're nothing if we don't pass our consumerism and debt on to our great-grandchildren? C'mon! We aren't Socialistic Europeans ya know! We have neighbors to impress, wives to placate with backyard projects and major home remodelings every 18 months....you know, sponge painting is sooooo 2005, time to redo the Great Room! Yeah, I agree with ya. Seriously. Every time I see a commercial at Xmas telling to buy a Lexus or a commercial in the summer where a domineering harpy of a wife keeps insisting on putting the family further and further in debt with her wanton desires of a new kitchen or new furniture it just sickens me. Is this what we're leaving behind for our children? The image of living to buy something? That we have no worth unless our pile of stuff is bigger than the neighbors - who just so happen to own an SUV and live in the suburbs. What a frakin' joke, well, actually no, it's pitiful. We've allowed corporate America to define our sense of self-worth and what it means to be American. Did we not learn anything from the 60's counter-culture movement or from the wretched excess of the 80's?

[VivienM]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Did we not learn anything from the wretched excess of the 80's?

"We" learned to spend our money on foreign cars instead of GM ones. That's about it.

[PrenupTB]

I can't wait for $4 gallon gas. I wish it was going to $5. We NEED high prices to weed us off of our addiction to oil. Why should we keep fighting and dying in the middle east so that people can drive Hummers and Navigators? Get real here people. Billy Bob and the redneck truck driving community can go take a walk. We must become a Europe-light before it is too late. High gas prices will help the USA more than it will hurt us.

[importedtuna]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Every time I see a commercial at Xmas telling to buy a Lexus or a commercial in the summer where a domineering harpy of a wife keeps insisting on putting the family further and further in debt with her wanton desires of a new kitchen or new furniture it just sickens me. That we have no worth unless our pile of stuff is bigger than the neighbors - who just so happen to own an SUV and live in the suburbs. What a frakin' joke.

My co-workers told me not to buy a Focus wagon as an all-around car because it wouldn't impress the LAY-DEES. That if I want something like that I should pay another 10 grand and buy something bigger and thirstier.

[neshapop]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Yes....I live in Iowa and I regularly drive to Georgia. Cities and suburbs should have some sort of mass transit system between them, to eliminate congestion if nothing else. The whole "we are spread out more than Europe" line only works so long as you don't think about why more American cities don't have light rail to handle transportation between the suburbs to the major manufacturing/business/employment centers. You don't think it's going to hit us hard when the people who live in the suburbs can no longer afford the gas to get to and from work and they have no other options? Would it hurt us more if we took the Federal excise tax and put it towards developing light rail for cities with populations in excess of 100K people? I know Canada is spread out a lot more than we are, but we aren't talking about putting in mass transit between every State or Province, we can't be connected on that level, but to deny the need for some sort of fail-safe mass public transportation network is just plain foolish.

Actually Canada has quite urban population (80%) which should make public transit more feasible but the problem (beside elections to elections aiming politicians) is lack of will from the consumers (also known before as human beings) to curb their appetite for wasteful behavior (like getting two dozens of plastic bags) or manufacturers to use super oversize PVC packaging (e.g. memory cards) let alone gas guzzling habits to drive EVERYWHERE within 0.5 mile range or having supersized homes in the boonies with no amenities for miles around.

I would prefer to have decent comfortable public transit for commute to work and have a chance to talk to a living person or read something instead to sit in the gridlock comforting myself how being single passenger talking to my radio or to my cellphone will give me that American sense of "freedom".
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[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by SkiPopeye36

No offense, but that's a pretty uneducated comment. That statement's only true if you make less a month than it takes to gas your car/truck/suv to get you to work each month. If that's the case, you wouldn't be in a position to own a car in the first place...

What about the working poor? True, they may have the ability and the financial means to keep buying gas, but they'll give up something...and what if your job is to make that 'something' that the working poor have stopped buying? It may not stop people from getting to work, but it will hurt. We will all feel it to some extent, just like the way that food prices increase when transportation costs go up, so will the cost of items when part of the workforce is gone and fewer items are being made. Of course you also have the fact that fewer things will be bought 'just because' when fuel costs go up counteracting the lower production numbers. It will affect us all.

P.S., it's also a pretty uneducated comment to say that a statement is only true 'if you make less a month than it takes to gas your car'. Yeah, most people have apartments and feed themselves for the average fill up amount of $28. Of course people make more than it takes to fill their car, duh. But a lot of people won't be able to fill that car when the cost of gas increases the price of food, thereby threatening how much food is on the table or when they have to either give up driving or give up health insurance, or live in their car instead of paying the rent simply to be able to fuel up the car. Yes, those are inflated examples, but everything in this country is affected by the cost of transportation. That's what happens when you base an economy on the availability of cheap, finite fuel. Well, hindsight's 20/20.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by neshapop

Actually Canada has quite urban population (80%) which should make public transit more feasible but the problem (beside elections to elections aiming politicians) is lack of will from the consumers (also known before as the human beings) to curb their appetite for wasteful behavior (like getting two dozens of plastic bags) or manufacturers to use super oversize PVC packaging (e.g. memory cards) let alone gas guzzling habits to drive EVERYWHERE within 0.5 mile range or having supersized homes in the bunnies with no amenities for miles around.

I would prefer to have decent comfortable public transit for commute to work and have a chance to talk to a living person or read something instead to sit in the gridlock comforting myself how being single passenger talking to my radio or to my cellphone will give me that American sense of "freedom".

Well said. Too bad to few U.S. citizens think that way. It's all about the car, man. That's what our entire way of life is centered on, cheap easy transportation. Well that's gonna come to an end sooner than we thought. Are we ready? Pffff......what problem?

[steverino]

More refineries = end of problem. It's the bottleneck that drives prices higher because we can't meet consumer demand. Unfortunately, they take 8 yrs to meet environmental requirements and to construct.

[Coloradokid]

Originally Posted by PrenupTB

I can't wait for $4 gallon gas. I wish it was going to $5. We NEED high prices to weed us off of our addiction to oil. Why should we keep fighting and dying in the middle east so that people can drive Hummers and Navigators? Get real here people. Billy Bob and the redneck truck driving community can go take a walk. We must become a Europe-light before it is too late. High gas prices will help the USA more than it will hurt us.

What are we going to do with the 1,000,000 people or so that will loose their jobs when the Big Three go belly up? Are you willing to pay higher taxes to cover their welfare checks?

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by guitarlix

And I just posted yesterday that I felt that gas prices would push over the $4 mark this summer.

What will gas prices settle at over the course of this summer

I can only hope it doesn't head towards $5.

Still $2.79 for Regular here.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by steverino

More refineries = end of problem. It's the bottleneck that drives prices higher because we can't meet consumer demand. Unfortunately, they take 8 yrs to meet environmental requirements and to construct.

B.S. How will that solve the problem? It'll lower the price, sure....until demand surpasses the 'freed up amount'. The price is higher because it costs more to get the crude out of the ground, not because there aren't enough Kwik-E-Marts in your neighborhood. I once bought gas from a Sinclair station in Wyoming located about 22 miles from a Sinclair refinery. Now, this was 1989 and gas, I believe was $1.02 or so....well, not at the Sinclair station, it was $2.06. Guess it cost a lot to tote it 22 miles. It's easy to blame this on the 'Greenies' because, by God, everyone needs a conspiracy theory to help them sleep at night, but it has nothing to do with the EPA. Why, if you are making record profits as an oil company, would you build more refineries to bring the cost of your product down? And we all know that oil companies are only in business because they care about us, it has nothing to do with money. What. Ever.

[Coloradokid]

The notion of gasoline prices being this high is a crock. Last winter I was paying $1.87 a gallon. You mean to tell me that the price more then doubles within a six month period? Bull****.

What it boils down to is us having an oil man for a president, and having him use every trick in his bag to manipulate the prices. The price of oil goes down, let's threaten a war with Iran to boost them up or announce that we are going to put 300,000 barrels a day in the strategic petrolium reserve that Bush won't ever use. There is no economic reason why prices should be this high- there are no shortages or lines at the pumps like we had in '73 and '79.

Want to lower oil prices overnight? Knock the national speed limit back down to 60 MPH on the freeways, and 50 MPH on non-freeways. This would immediately conserve energy, knock the prices down signifficantly, and reduce greenhouse gases. I am sure that if this happened, enough people will bitch and a true investigation of the gouging that is taking place will be undertaken as it should have three years ago.