15 states offer E85 at 25%+ less than gasoline

[treekiller]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

I had a 8% to 10% drop in fuel economy in my motorcycle when Texas mandated E10 a couple years ago. I can't believe that E85 would only be 10% to 15% worse than regular gass. Unless you're talking about the two losses combined - 10% loss from E10 + 15% loss from E85 = 25%. That I could believe.

I assume All Super to be E-10 I am comparing to. Florida (as do most states) have a "contains up to" law. so no mandate. I can only compare against what I get out of the pump.. which is an unknown, so I assume worst case (for my argument) E-10..

Now concerning your motorcycle. is it carbureted?. then very possibly you are running out of the optimum efficiency range. (or worse the carbs are out of balance) since an E0-E10 change should only equal an absolute WORST CASE difference of 2.5% of course if your bike was tuned poorly to begin with a change in AFR could make it that much worse. If you REALLY experienced a 10% drop Then the Ethanol would have to have ZERO BTU value, and we know that's just not the case. I had a 1100cc Yamaha for years and I know the pain of 4 carbs, all it took was a humid day to make it run like crap.

If your state mandated E-10 I'd balance the carbs and richen up the mix 2% and I'd bet you'll see 10-20% improvement in power, hence mileage. most engines are tuned 3-5% rich from the factory, since rich is safe, and rich is easier to clean with a catalyst so the 2% difference in E10 for most people is washed.

Go out and buy a wide band Air Fuel meter. Even a narrow band Pep-boys $30 special can tell amazing things about how an engine is running.

[osv_alero]

At 25% reduction in price, there is less than a $10 difference from E-85 to "regular" unleaded in Oregon (assuming you drove an Impala with the 3.5 liter E-85 6-cyl.).

[RSW]

To me the main question (particularly as I obsessively contemplate my next car purchase) is not so much what is the current relative price of E85 but where ethanol prices are headed in the future.

If I assume my next car will see perhaps $7 to $12/gallon gas prices - wild guesses, obviously - I wonder whether E85 will always be priced based on market forces to be just a little lower than gasoline so that it is always fairly close to a wash. Or will it be priced based on other factors so that when gas doubles E85 only goes up, say 25% (based perhaps on the increased fuel costs which go into its production).

Of course no one can say but it seems to me that perhaps E85 will not rise as quickly as gasoline, particularly as alternative forms of E85 (cellulosic, etc.) come online. But perhaps I am being naively hopeful - in fact, probably I am.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by RSW

To me the main question (particularly as I obsessively contemplate my next car purchase) is not so much what is the current relative price of E85 but where ethanol prices are headed in the future.

If I assume my next car will see perhaps $7 to $12/gallon gas prices - wild guesses, obviously - I wonder whether E85 will always be priced based on market forces to be just a little lower than gasoline so that it is always fairly close to a wash. Or will it be priced based on other factors so that when gas doubles E85 only goes up, say 25% (based perhaps on the increased fuel costs which go into its production).

Of course no one can say but it seems to me that perhaps E85 will not rise as quickly as gasoline, particularly as alternative forms of E85 (cellulosic, etc.) come online. But perhaps I am being naively hopeful - in fact, probably I am.

It is not fairly close to a wash. The U.S imports 60-70% of its oil. It imports 0% of its ethanol. Even if the prices of the two are comparable, it is a no-brainer.

[Ed Arcuri]

The issue for me is not price.
Availability and perception are the issues.
E85 extends the available petroleum supply. Those of us who lived through the gas lines of the 70's do not want to see foreign oil suppliers have that Sword of Damocles again.
Additionally, while E85 does not improve mileage, it is widely perceived as "greener" than gasoline or E10. Wider availability of the FlexFuel option, particularly in four cylinder models, would immediately enhance G.M.'s reputation for environmental concern as well as creating a positive image for their effort to find alternatives.
Perhaps they could make the E85 capability an option as part of a Touring package in their smaller cars, justifying a higher price for those cars equipped with the package. The 2009 HHR will have the E85 capability, so it appears to be technically feasible to expand the lineup. I would pay extra for the feature if it was available in a GM product I would like to buy.
As for the price; it is likely to remain lower but move in unison with gasoline prices as they are alternatives to one another and the substitution effect will keep the price movements close. However, just the fact that alternatives are available will temper the price fluctuations to the upside.
Cheers,
Ed

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Ed Arcuri

The issue for me is not price.
Availability and perception are the issues.
E85 extends the available petroleum supply. Those of us who lived through the gas lines of the 70's do not want to see foreign oil suppliers have that Sword of Damocles again.
Additionally, while E85 does not improve mileage, it is widely perceived as "greener" than gasoline or E10. Wider availability of the FlexFuel option, particularly in four cylinder models, would immediately enhance G.M.'s reputation for environmental concern as well as creating a positive image for their effort to find alternatives.
Perhaps they could make the E85 capability an option as part of a Touring package in their smaller cars, justifying a higher price for those cars equipped with the package. The 2009 HHR will have the E85 capability, so it appears to be technically feasible to expand the lineup. I would pay extra for the feature if it was available in a GM product I would like to buy.
As for the price; it is likely to remain lower but move in unison with gasoline prices as they are alternatives to one another and the substitution effect will keep the price movements close. However, just the fact that alternatives are available will temper the price fluctuations to the upside.
Cheers,
Ed

Option B: Congress mandates all cars sold in the U.S. are Flex Fuel.

[camaro_freak]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

What hasn't been getting much air time? The fact that he would have saved $200 if he had used E85 instead of gasoline? Yeah, I wish more people realized that.

Originally Posted by jason644

E85 is 105 octane so it gives you more horsepower and you do lose about 15% to 20% in fuel economy, however it is nice to have the option to run it if you want to. I know around where I live it is about $1.10 less than regular unleaded so it is cheaper to run.

I stand corrected! I thought you actually lose both efficiency and horsepower. MY BAD GUYS!!!!