Its Not Just GM: July Sales Fall 7.3% At Toyota; Tundra Sells 23K - New Record

[minnfang]

Originally Posted by Norseman

Ya, know the people at Toyota really aren't the d!ckheads, the people that buy the Toyotas are the d!ckheads.

No truer words ever written.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by geozinger

GAAAH!

I was doing quite well this afternoon until I read your links...

No joke, we, as a country are WAAAY overextended. Living in Michigan I thought for sure I would see my state mentioned more frequently in those graphs, maybe they didn't want to scare me further.

The Marketwatch article didn't really tell me anything that I didn't see in the Credit Suisse piecharts (or on BusinessWatch), but maybe I should be conserving my money. The whole deal with the global credit issue reminds me very much of the 1997 Asian collapse. The only difference is Marketwatch predicts the money going out of the US... This could be ugly...

Michigan has not had as high a concentration of subprime and alt-a lending as other states, but Michigan and the midwest manufacturing areas have had a high number of defaults due the weak local economy and job market.

Check out this link for the top 500 zip codes for defaults. Michigan, Ohio, etc. have a large share:
http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/19/real...odes/index.htm

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by bcjohnso99

Credit abuse (with financial institutions being willing participants) is widely believed to have been the trigger for the great depression. Hopefully it's better managed this time...

Given the amount of investment in China and their questionable debt policies, the next big one could start there.

To all pessimists: collect gold and buy your truck at 20 cents on the dollar after the collapse

There is a lot of risky debt out there, but on a positive note, it is pretty well distributed. Much of the risky subprime and alt-a mortgages have been repackaged into CDOs (collareralized debt obligations), and have been bought and sold in hedge funds and other funds. These funds have been traded worldwide. That's not to say that people won't suffer, just that the risk has been spread broadly enough that I think the chance of a collapse in the US economy remains small. Witness the recent collapse of the Bear Stearns hedge funds.

http://www.reuters.com/article/email...27495320070721

The scary thing is that a lot of our 401K plans have invested in these funds, so almost no one is immune.

Also on the positive side, if we do witness a continued weakening in the dollar, that will give domestic manufacturers a boost, as the advantage foreign manufacturers currently enjoy due to a stronger dollar are lessened. This will allow domestic manufacturers to not only have an advantage selling products (like automobiles) domestically, but also as exports to countries with a newfound strong currency.

For example, the Japanese yen compared to the dollar has been on a strengthening trend since Jan 2005.

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDJPY=X&t=5y

There's a nice analysis today on this USD vs Yen trend described above by the AP.

Until jitters over U.S. credit risk fade away or players get tired of talking about it, the dollar's rough moves between 118 yen and 119 yen will continue," said Takeshi Iba, senior foreign exchange manager at Calyon Bank.


But in the longer term, the dollar may decline further as sentiment toward the currency is gradually becoming bearish due to concerns over U.S. economic fundamentals.
"If you look at U.S. data overnight, the nation's fundamentals aren't that good anymore," Mitsubishi UFJ Trust's Shimizu said.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070802/asia_dollar.html?.v=1

It's really not that the yen is strengthening, rather the dollar has been on a weakening trend.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070801/dollar.html?.v=6

Compare the USD vs. the Canadian dollar:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=CADUSD=X&t=5y

Or the Australian dollar
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AUDUSD=X&t=5y

[hdmax]

The worst part is the fact that so many older Americans that can tell the stories second hand about WWII, they are buying the imports about as fast as the 20 someing buyers are. And to me that is so wrong on every level.

I just wish the USA would play hardball against japan like they have for decades in the buy/sale auto industry.

Originally Posted by joemac

H3ll it goes allot deeper than that. How bout the total lack of pride in country or anything American. The ever growing mindset seems to be "who cares as long as it's me me me me and again me, screw everyone else, quit whining, I don't have time for this, I need to go get in my import car and find some more Chinese produces goods, please don't get in my way."

The true red blood American is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by desmo9

But now Toyota's true fabric comes out ... they'd do anything necessary to move their volume forecast for the Tundra, even resorting to big incentives. Start with $3K, and increase as needed. We're talking about a company that could afford to knock $10K off the sticker. It'd be a close cousin to dumping, but not quite the same given the huge margins of full-size pickups. But would Toyota do it in order to get capacity out of the plant? Absolutely.

Minor clarification: products made in the US can't be 'dumped' ( Tundra, Camry, Corolla ). Only products imported can be accused of being dumped ( 4Runner, Prius, Highlander, Yaris, Scions, etc ).

[Ghrankenstein]

But now Toyota's true fabric comes out ... they'd do anything necessary to move their volume forecast for the Tundra, even resorting to big incentives. Start with $3K, and increase as needed.

FREE ENGINE AT 5000 MILES!!!

[yoblues]

Originally Posted by joemac

H3ll it goes allot deeper than that. How bout the total lack of pride in country or anything American. The ever growing mindset seems to be "who cares as long as it's me me me me and again me, screw everyone else, quit whining, I don't have time for this, I need to go get in my import car and find some more Chinese produces goods, please don't get in my way."

The true red blood American is quickly becoming a thing of the past.

The Multi Nationals wanted the Global Economy. They bought the politicians who gave it to them. If your Congressman or Senator is a free trader Global Economy type and you voted for him/her you cut your own throat. This is what Pat Buchanan was trying to warn working people about two decades ago.

[desmo9]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Minor clarification: products made in the US can't be 'dumped' ( Tundra, Camry, Corolla ). Only products imported can be accused of being dumped ( 4Runner, Prius, Highlander, Yaris, Scions, etc ).

I thought I said close cousin to dumping. On one hand, even deeply-discounted trucks are probably still drawing a profit so even if they were imported, it'd probably be legal to throw $10K on the hood of many versions. Regardless, given the domestic assembly they could sell the Tundra at a loss and it'd be legal as you suggest. But this, to me, looks alot like dumping ... with the same type of damage done to the competition. Regardless of whether it's actual "dumping" or simply predatory sales practices.

That said, dumping laws are thus deficient, because the Tundra could have 90% of its content imported, and by virtue of being assembled here, it'd permissible for Toyota to sell it at a loss.

[vcs2600]

GM/Ford/Dodge has never thrown $10K on the hood of a pickup?

My guess is that they could on certain models and still pull a profit even with the UAW costs.

[TahoeMikeZ71]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

GM/Ford/Dodge has never thrown $10K on the hood of a pickup?

My guess is that they could on certain models and still pull a profit even with the UAW costs.

GM was giving away the GMT800s though at the end of their life span with the 900s coming.

[fenderbender]

This is very odd because our dealership had record sales this month.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by espo19047

Do you really think people are buying the Tundra for 1/4 mile times?
If you survey the people buying the Tundra I dont think 1/4 mile times are the number one answer.
Percieved Toyota quality.

think of it this way. when your towing 7000 pounds and trying to merge onto a highway, would you rather it take 10 seconds or 14 seconds to get to 60? (i know its not a 1/4 mile, but you get the point)

in my mind gm is number one, but the only way they are going to get more people to think like me is to beat toyota at EVERYTHING. all aspects need to be better than toyota, and then they have to MARKET THE CRAP OUT OF IT. thats the only way things are gonna happen. they cant sit back and think, "theyll buy gm cause its gm". no. not gonna happen. find a way to compare the trucks in the commercials- if you call them out by name so be it. it needs to get done, or the truck market will quickly become the car market.

[AndrewGS]

Originally Posted by TahoeMikeZ71

GM was giving away the GMT800s though at the end of their life span with the 900s coming.

They never had $10,000 discounts though. The lowest prices on 800s were last October when my Aunt bought a $27,000 Sierra for $19,800. In November prices started creeping back up a bit and the last 800 Sierras I looked at like my Aunt's were going for about $23,000 in April.

[USA Patriot]

Originally Posted by pgill00

You know that the 6-speed is only really good for increased gas mileage right? You also know that the Silverado beats the Tundra in gas mileage right?

I trully believe it is narrow-minded to boil 20,000 unit sales of Tundra to Silverado not having a 13mpg SS model. Our local Toyota store which is the biggest in AL still has yet to trade in a Silverado on a new Tundra.

They built an ok truck and it is taking old Tundra sales and Ford truck sales. GM customers are waiting for the incentives and if they hold out they will get people excited about every extra $500 and eventually a $2500 rebate will be the SALE OF THE YEAR like it needs to be.

Stop bashing GM for what they are not doing. They have their stuff together and it just takes time to build on it. Toyota is thinking month-to-month and when they have their first layoff in San Antonio, people will jump off the Tundra band wagon.

If you read my other posts on gminsidenews you would see that I am a huge GM supporter/owner. Your responce was a bit of an overreaction. Yes, most of us know that Gm pickups have better in gas milage. However, if you have ever seen a Toyota commercial they advertise their six-speed every time. It is a selling point. Me? I have always and will always by GM or Ford pickups. However, there are people out there who will buy Toyotas because they are led to believe they have a better transmission.

[Geotpf]

[quote=paul8488][quote=pmusce]The GTM900's are not inching downward.

I dunno man... look at this year so far:

---------Dec------Jan------Feb-----March----April-----May-----June-----July

Total 69,937 51,540 76,836 72,129 66,285 83,257 60,142 62,889


I know a few months don't necessarily constitute a reliable trend, but there isn't any growth in GMs fullsize pickups across the first half of the year. I hope you're right and that 0% financing helps.

Vehicle sales are highly seasonal. Comparing one month to the next doesn't mean anything. You have to compare this month to the same month in the previous year for meaningful numbers.