Its Not Just GM: July Sales Fall 7.3% At Toyota; Tundra Sells 23K - New Record

[geozinger]

Originally Posted by steinravnik

Correct. The correction in housing alone most likely has at least another two years to go. And it will continue to gain considerable momentum through the end of this year. There has already been substantial failure in the subprime mortgage market, and the ALT-A (the next class of mortgage that is less riskier than subprime, but riskier than prime) market will be hit soon. Take a look at this chart to get an idea of exactly how many risky mortgages are out there:

http://www.recharts.com/reports/CSHB...SHB031207.html

The majority of subprime and alt-a mortgages made last year will most likely fail if they have not already failed in the massive defaults already witnessed. This is on top of the risky mortgages made in 2005, 2004, 2003, etc.

But the real crux of the problem is not mortgages nor automobiles, but the looming global credit crisis. It's more likely than you think.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...4A8F61D2E4%7D&

Central banks around the world have had extremely liberal monetary policies over the past several years and this has created a massive global credit bubble. The unwinding of this will not be pretty.

GAAAH!

I was doing quite well this afternoon until I read your links...

No joke, we, as a country are WAAAY overextended. Living in Michigan I thought for sure I would see my state mentioned more frequently in those graphs, maybe they didn't want to scare me further.

The Marketwatch article didn't really tell me anything that I didn't see in the Credit Suisse piecharts (or on BusinessWatch), but maybe I should be conserving my money. The whole deal with the global credit issue reminds me very much of the 1997 Asian collapse. The only difference is Marketwatch predicts the money going out of the US... This could be ugly...

[USA Patriot]

I was not expecting these sales results. Even Impala didn't do well. The Silverado needs a six-speed and maybe an SS model. I hope the next Malibu will sell well. To be honest I thought the new pickups were going to be a homerun even with their four-speeds.

I guess I should be happy that retail sales are a little better.

[hunchman]

Originally Posted by guitarlix

GM needs 6-spds in all their trucks NOW. This is important to stem any future losses to Toyota.

I don't know how many of you have driven a 5.7L Tundra but if you step on the gas, it goes like hell and I think that leaves a strong impression of power in the minds of truck buyers.

please tell me guitarlix which full size new pick up doesn't go like hell when you step on the gas......I've tromped on them all including the titan and find that they all have way more than enough punch to launch with remarkable acceleration considering the size of these beasts.

[member12]

Originally Posted by CRBoyd91

Of course Toyota blames not having record sales on the Housing Market. They sound like a bunch of ****heads.

It's stupid to blame Toyota's lackluster sales on the slump in the housing market.

I mean, look at me....the real reason that I am not in a new Toyota is because of a strange itch that I have been having between my toes.
I am sure millions of Americans feel the same way.

[wescoent]

Toyota's saving graces this month was the Tundra and Prius. Tundra represented a 13,000 unit increase, and Prius a 5,000 unit gain, and without those two, Toyota's loss would have nearly doubled to over 16% drop.

The rest of their lineup got ripped, including the might Corolla.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Originally Posted by hunchman

please tell me guitarlix which full size new pick up doesn't go like hell when you step on the gas......I've tromped on them all including the titan and find that they all have way more than enough punch to launch with remarkable acceleration considering the size of these beasts.

Yeah WTH even V6 Silverados will burn rubber

[T-Type]

Originally Posted by steinravnik

The Tundra sold well most likely due to the massive $3500 rebate.

That I believe is what made the difference. A brand new spankin' truck and a massive rebate. It makes for something that is hard to ignore. Now that GM's hand is being forced on the rebates, I expect the GM stuff to pick up.

[sigma]

Originally Posted by geozinger

Those kinds of figures are only relevant if you know what happened the year before. The previous Tundra didn't sell anywhere near what the new one does. Whether that's because of the total re-design or the money on the hood is another matter to be debated.

However, I think we're just realizing the tip of the iceberg of the whole housing/refinancing/shaky mortgage problem. I fear we have not reached the bottom, there's more room to fall down. And that this situation will affect many more of us, whether or not we purchase pickup trucks or cars.

It's the money on the hood. More than 5,000 in average incentives for the fully loaded crew cab with the 5.7L V8. On other models, the incentives are close to twice that. GM is offering between 1/3-1/5 of what Toyota is offering in terms of incentives. It's hurting sales now, but its better in the long run.

[windvale]

Originally Posted by jzchev28

Why wouldn't they? well the biggest reason is that typical truck drivers have more pride in their purchas then some car drivers. There are ford drivers that wouldnt be caught dead in a chevy let alone a toy-leta, and vise versa.

I hear ya...but...this used to be the case with car owners too. My father still says "Fords are a POS" with deadly seriousness, just like he said to me when I was a kid 40 years ago.

I suspect now that Toyota finally has a competitive full-size pickup (even though I'd argue not actually as good as GM's), plus throw in the agressive TV advertising and pricing, and I think you'll see Toyota get up into GM sales territory within 10 years...I hate it, but I really think you'll see it !

[pinyon]

What I find interesting is that even the mighty Prius is cooling. I know it's up from last year, but since they boosted production and had the huge May numbers, they are down the last two months. 24K -> 17K -> 16K. I know it's still a lot but it's really an indication of how soft things are.

[blawrence73]

Originally Posted by windvale

I hear ya...but...this used to be the case with car owners too. My father still says "Fords are a POS" with deadly seriousness, just like he said to me when I was a kid 40 years ago.

I suspect now that Toyota finally has a competitive full-size pickup (even though I'd argue not actually as good as GM's), plus throw in the agressive TV advertising and pricing, and I think you'll see Toyota get up into GM sales territory within 10 years...I hate it, but I really think you'll see it !

I would rather push a Chevy than drive a ford or a toyota!

[Z06ified]

Yeah, I think it is a bit of a stretch to blame Toyota's sales decline entirely on the housing market.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Not so fast. Geozinger is right. Remember last year Toyota was selling the last generation Tundra. And if 23,000 represents a 134% increase, imagine what a sales dog the last one was. When new models come out, and are given hundreds of millions of dollars worth of advertising and marketing, not to mention the VERY large incentives now being offered by Toyota, it would be difficult to NOT move the metal.

This is compared to GM full size pick up sales, Chev and GMC combined of 67,053 for July.

If Toyota is selling a third of what GM does in trucks - thats a problem.

GM stumbled with the new truck's powertrains, and I can't imagine a worse place to stumble. It took what by all other accounts was a class leading vehicle and made it simply, and excellent contender.

6200 across all models and 6 speeds across the board on all engines. GM needs to stop trying to use engines to drive trim levels and features. Let the buyer decide.

[ScottS]

Originally Posted by CRBoyd91

Of course Toyota blames not having record sales on the Housing Market. They sound like a bunch of ****heads.

And you sound like a....

[pgill00]

Originally Posted by USA Patriot

I was not expecting these sales results. Even Impala didn't do well. The Silverado needs a six-speed and maybe an SS model. I hope the next Malibu will sell well. To be honest I thought the new pickups were going to be a homerun even with their four-speeds.

I guess I should be happy that retail sales are a little better.

You know that the 6-speed is only really good for increased gas mileage right? You also know that the Silverado beats the Tundra in gas mileage right?

I trully believe it is narrow-minded to boil 20,000 unit sales of Tundra to Silverado not having a 13mpg SS model. Our local Toyota store which is the biggest in AL still has yet to trade in a Silverado on a new Tundra.

They built an ok truck and it is taking old Tundra sales and Ford truck sales. GM customers are waiting for the incentives and if they hold out they will get people excited about every extra $500 and eventually a $2500 rebate will be the SALE OF THE YEAR like it needs to be.

Stop bashing GM for what they are not doing. They have their stuff together and it just takes time to build on it. Toyota is thinking month-to-month and when they have their first layoff in San Antonio, people will jump off the Tundra band wagon.