GM October Sales Down 45.1%; Moves Up Red Tag Sale; Brings Back GarageMate Program

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by johnnyl321

look at some of the posts about wagoner and lutz and laneve from 3-4 years ago. it wasn't like we just started hating on these folks overnight. they've had plenty of time to make it right BEFORE this whole mess got worse. i know it's a recession going on, hell most of us have known if for quite a while now, but did our govt. acknowledge it...no.
most people who are in the auto business have known about gm's downturn for quite a while, not just this year. yeah, this year sucks for everybody, import and domestic alike. but gm has been failing for 8+ years now. do the math, what changed at gm in 2000?
go thru some back issues of automotive news and read some of the stuff for yourself. they're non biased. i'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, not by a long shot, but sometimes common sense prevails. gm simply needs new LEADERSHIP, not new management. i'm not saying lutz, wagoner and lanever are bad managers...they're not. but they're terrible LEADERS. they listen to no outside advise whatsoever. i would like to find out what they model their business after, i really would. for these upper crust management of one of the largest companies in the world, you'd think they would be pureblooded capitalists, but they're not. they look for excuses instead of opportunity. they blame the consumer time after time after time, but never themselves. hey, sometimes if the same thing keeps going wrong, maybe it's YOU who are the constant.
ok. off my soapbox....and my meds. g'nite moon.

spoken like a true front line warrior.

[Patate]

As I said, before blaming everything on Rick and co, I think it's better to blame the whole management in all those years.

When GM decided to sell CRAP like the Cavalier, The GrandAm, the Sunfire, etc... they lost some customers forever. Would it have been any complicated to simply import an european design, while building it in America? When in 2001, you still sell a worthless 2.2L OHV engine, while Honda and Toyota sells modern compact cars, hoping to grab a good marketshare is simply insanity. No matter how much GM gives their Compact cars, they will never surpass Honda-Toyota. This has been decided decades ago, when GM decided it was wiser to invest billions to create a brand to compete with the Imports when Chevy could have done it with a good imported B-segment car, a good C-car and a Midsize car that is worth to pay a premium to have. Instead, GM gave the old malibu, the cavalier and the grand-am. They made fleet queens with poor interiors, and did they actually think they could compete with the Accord, Camry, Civic and Corolla?

For years, GM was building great SUVs and Trucks, but their cars were inferior in every way. What they did to change this was too little, too late.

Rick got in charge of a company that was already in a bad shape, but that had lots of money and chances to turn over the situation. He missed it, and he is still missing it. For example, South Koreans can buy the new Cruze.. here, it's in 2 years. Think about it.

[Extreme4x4]

Everyone realizes that you do not turn around a disaster like GM, in a few years. However, to sit here and dwell on the past, does nothing but hinder the future. Know that it happened, learn from the mistakes, and move on.

Therein lies the problem. Current management has learned from a few of the mistakes, but still makes MANY of the same ones. Put aside the economy, and ask yourself............... if the economy was pretty good, like it was a year ago, would GM be much better off than they are now?? The answer is a resounding NO. They were bleeding like a stuck pig when the economy was good, and are hemoraging like a pig with its throat cut, right now. The only difference is degree.............. and that can be blamed on the economy.

Yes the product is better, well, at least what they bother to replace is . The quality is a little better, but spotty. The fit and finish is better........... in most places. They can design and put into production, a new vehicle, faster than any other automaker on earth............. too bad it takes them longer to make the decision to build it, than it does to design and produce it............ thus, making it take longer than almost any other manufacturer, from conception to production.

There are too many people who have too much say, and can change or eliminate a vehicle too far down the line. In this, the basic culture of GM, is where the basic failure still exists............. and will, until it is gutted, and fixed.

Yes Wagoner needs to go.............. as he is way out of his league here. He was out of his league before the economy crashed. Lutz has a big mouth, and should only be kept if he has an assistant who duct tapes his mouth any time the press is around. The entire board needs to go. Start fresh, with some people who are willing to enable a CEO with the control that he needs to actually accomplish something. In other words, the board would have to give up some of its power. Get someone from outside GM, this way they are not part of the current "war of the brands" culture that is rotting GM from the inside.

Then maybe, just maybe, GM will survive.

Oh yeah, thats right............... they will anyway............... and we will all pay for it, just like we are paying for the AIG management to have party after party.

[Patate]

Originally Posted by Extreme4x4

Then maybe, just maybe, GM will survive.

Oh yeah, thats right............... they will anyway............... and we will all pay for it, just like we are paying for the AIG management to have party after party.

I am 100% in favor of a GM bailout because the governement needs to solve its mistakes. The first one is to not interfere in the economy while all the import automakers get help, the second one is to take responsibility in the healthcare system.

They will have to get a whole new management team though, there's no free ride allowed. The governement should not do this for the investors, or the management, but for the workers and the suppliers.

Ford can take care of themselves.

As for Chrysler, I think it is a company that can get back on its tracks pretty easily, if it wasn't for their owners trying to unload them to GM. Before getting raped by Daimler and left without money to fund real car developpement, this company proved that they can be among the best. Innovation and quick decisions always saved this company, and if Cerberus was serious in staying in the automotive market, they could do a lot with Chrysler.

GM's the one in the worst condition at the moment though. Let's hope the Dems do something about it.

[HotCarNut]

Originally Posted by Buickman

the bottom line is that LaNeve, DiGiovanni, and the rest of VSSM don't have a clue. none of them has ever sold a car at retail in their life. same for Lutz and the rest of them. the excuses are rampant month after month. it's always something besides their sorry selves. until GM puts real car people in charge of moving the metal the results will be the same, only the excuses will be different. call me arrogant but I could fix this thing inside of a few months and save money while doing it. only Red Ink the Ratfink Rick stands in my way. it's not the economy or the competition, just one pompous, ineffective, corrupt individual holding me back.

WOW....no ego??? You're an egomaniac! There's more to running an automotive company than just marketing and sales. I might be able to buy that you'd be competent to run GM's marketing department and coordinate marketing with the national dealer body. In fact, I believe that you'd be good at the job. However, you have absolutely no experience with running a multi-billion dollar manufacturing company with global operations. The investment decisions and analysis, not to mention making calls on design and development projects, are completely outside your experience. I took the liberty of visiting your website (which hasn't been substantially updated since 2004) and I read your bio. Yes, you were a top salesman and you've done several dealership turnarounds. There's no question you know how to "move metal". But to claim that you have the necessary skills to run all aspects of a global automotive company better than someone like Bob Lutz, Alan Mullaly, or any of the other people at any of the Big 3 at the divisional level is beyond narcissistic. Stick to what you know best: selling cars. GM needs all the help it can get there too.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by Extreme4x4

...if the economy was pretty good, like it was a year ago, would GM be much better off than they are now?? The answer is a resounding NO...

Good quote. GM was weak to begin with. They didn't use their billions in profits from SUVs and trucks in the early to late 90's to turn GM into a healthy company. Now they appear to want to straighten things around on the car side but don't have the money for it. That is MASSIVE management failure, compounded and exxagerated by the current credit crisis, perhaps, but failure nonetheless.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Good quote. GM was weak to begin with. They didn't use their billions in profits from SUVs and trucks in the early to late 90's to turn GM into a healthy company. Now they appear to want to straighten things around on the car side but don't have the money for it. That is MASSIVE management failure, compounded and exxagerated by the current credit crisis, perhaps, but failure nonetheless.

and so it will continue as it has until there is new leadership.

[PeteM143]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Frugal people with high scores just don't buy new cars very often, if ever.
I hardly ever buy a new car, I buy mostly used even though I could get financed in a heartbeat.I've run into that too, but if you have movie channels all you have to do is tell them you want 'em for free for X months to even things out.
They'll do that every time... that's how I get "free" DVRs.

Just because you wouldn't buy a new car doesn't mean that your methodology defines frugal. Some people, like me, like to own a car from new so we can maintain it properly and keep 'em going for a long time.
If everyone werelike you, there would be no used cars to buy.
Sorry, your argument holds no weight.

[PeteM143]

Originally Posted by HotCarNut

I agree with what you're saying, and I'm not giving GM management a free pass. What I want to hear out of critics and armchair quarterbacks like Buickman are real solutions. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and criticize (hell, we've turned it into a national sport), but it actually takes effort to get up off of our collective rear-ends and TRY.

- I want to see consumers vote with their pocketbooks for American companies. The Chevrolet Malibu is better than the Toyota Camry IMO, and is at least as good according to every measure. If two items are equal, whether it's cars or computers, I want to see American citizens buy the American brand.
[.

I can't agree more. The company car I drive, and '07 Camry, is a pile of garbage. The Malibu is FAR superior.

[Geotpf]

Originally Posted by PeteM143

I can't agree more. The company car I drive, and '07 Camry, is a pile of garbage. The Malibu is FAR superior.

That may or may not be true. But the Camry sold three times as well as the Malibu last month. That's the only number that matters.

Of course, a lot of that is because the previous Malibus were significantly inferior to the Camrys of the same generation.

If GM sold high quality, reliabile cars consistantly, they would recover in a decade or so. But the time to start doing that was 1998 (or 1978), not today. And there still are a fair number of stinkers in GM's line up, so they still don't have the consistantly part of the equation yet.

[03xtreme]

Originally Posted by Geotpf

That may or may not be true. But the Camry sold three times as well as the Malibu last month. That's the only number that matters.

Of course, a lot of that is because the previous Malibus were significantly inferior to the Camrys of the same generation.

If GM sold high quality, reliabile cars consistantly, they would recover in a decade or so. But the time to start doing that was 1998 (or 1978), not today. And there still are a fair number of stinkers in GM's line up, so they still don't have the consistantly part of the equation yet.

no media bias has helped the foreign automakers, thats for sure
:sarcasim:

[AirCleaner]

I think the December GM sales results are going to be a real eye-opener. We will know in about 2 weeks.