GM March 2008 Sales Down 13%; Retail Sales Up

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by D C

The Volt a game changer? I'll respectfully disagree with you there. The Volt will undoubtedly be a low volume, high price, niche market vehicle. Is isn't going to appeal to the person who is spending only $15k on a fuel efficient car and buying a Honda Fit. THAT is where GM needs to compete.

I agree that the volume is likely to be quite moderate at best. The price will be a serious concern. The issue of the batteries ( lease/buy replace/keep ) will have to be addressed before launch. Then there is the serious question of just how big is the market for such a vehicle. It would be perfect for my wife with a 24 mi daily RT commute, but if it's $30-$35K then it better be a near-luxury vehicle. For my business it would not offer that much of a savings @ 200-400 miles a day. The more one drives the less is the benefit of the EREVs and PHEVs.

However down the road, I'm guessing 5-10 yrs, there will probably be a whole slew of e-Flex's available with a variety of power sources. I've already put a deposit down on a bio-diesel EREV....

[PhishPhood]

I've seen no statements at all from GM about the Tahoe/Yukon 2-Mode sales. Anyone?

[yukonho]

I did my part. We traded in our 06 Silverado for a 08 Tahoe to tow our 5900lb travel trailer. We absolutely love it. I still have one more to by this year too. Our 06 H3's lease is up in August. Now that I have a big tow vehicle I am looking for a small SUV with decent MPG's that can tow 1000-1500 lbs. Unfortunately, GM does not offer such a thing. I like how the Vue drives, but if you get 4WD it's mileage is down to what an Envoy/Trailblazer gets and you lose half of the interior room of the Envoy. I like the Equinox but I can lease a loaded H3 for less then what they lease for.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by K-1

Did you watch any NCAA Tourney action? There were PBG ads nearly every other commercial break, with the Enclave nicely shown off.

Newer fleet reports (2007 mid-year) have the G5 at 27%. With sales of the G5 dropping, I'm sure the % has increased.

Ok lets see Pontiac sold 1,546 G5s in March, take away 27% and you have 1,128 which is still 400 more G5s then Saturn sold Astras.

Originally Posted by windvale

Chevy and Cadillac are going in the right direction. Saturn's an under performer. Buick and Pontiac are a mess...

An under performer? Oh come on. Saturn is a disaster. When you compare one of Saturn’s vehicles to it’s Buick or Pontiac equivalent it’s clear they are the worst.

Outlook: 2,428 Enclave: 4,460
Aura: 6,241 G6: 15,108

And as I said before even the pathetic rebadged, internet only advertised G5 is out selling the Astra.

Originally Posted by paul8488

Of the 10 vehicles listed, which ones have replacements due out this year? The Cobalt get a new engine but no other real noticeable changes. Not sure if the G5 gets that engine or not.

I think it’s a given that the G5 will get whatever engine the Cobalt gets.

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

GM is working on a Fit competitor - the chevy micro cars

Oh man how many times am I going to have to correct people on this.

The Chevy mini cars are mini cars. The Fit is not a mini car. A 1.0L 138" long 4 passenger car is not going to compete with a 1.5L 157" long 5 passenger car. They are not in the same class.

[D C]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

GM is working on a Fit competitor - the chevy micro cars - but even with Fit sales going up - that is not the direction GM needs to go. They need a competitive Civic/Corolla fighter. The Volt is the vehicle to bring in the technology and green image GM needs to really compete with the Civic and Corolla. I would argue that even if the Cobalt equalled the Civic in fuel efficiency - they woudln't sell because the perceived value isn't there. The Malibu is selling very well because for the first time GM is working on the things that add to the perceived value - like powertrains and interiors.

And if you think the Volt will be low volume and high priced you are kidding yourself. GM has already said they will sell this at a loss initially to get the ball moving. Their goal is high volume. That is the only way this project can be called a success.

Latest word is the Volt will cost $40k. What will that mean to a customer with $15k in their pocket and a desire for a fuel efficient vehicle? Probably not a damn thing. They're going to look at price, features, and probably most importantly the economy numbers. Seeing a considerably lower number on a GM product is going to send them away. Period. Having some wonderful green-halo vehicle isn't going to change that. GM does need a car to compete in the same class as the Fit and other small vehicles that same size. Worse fuel economy, worse sales. There is no way to spin that.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

The problem with that is that the company has nothing to offer that first time college aged buyer. The Civic gets them hooked at Honda and they come back for an Accord and a Pilot when they have a family. What does the GM buyer get? The Cobalt and Aveo? Probably not going to hook them for life with those products.

GM has shown it's contempt for the small car buyer since the Vega: the sooner they could get the customer dissatisfied with small cars, the sooner they would go back and buy mid or full size cars.

It is this sort of corporate cynicism that has cost them a couple of generations of new customers. Same as putting all your eggs in the SUV/Truck basket and ignoring your entry level and passenger car lines to "pull forward the GM 900s".

They simply do not care to cultivate the 1st time buyer like Honda and Toyota did. What improvements did the Cobalt get in it's past 4 model years ? It's being left to rot like the Cavalier was.

Even Ford improved the mpg of the Focus and has been promoting the PZEV capabilities it has. They have actually been inetrested in selling a few. There were dozens in stock when I went to test drive the 08.

The Cobalt is PZEV in CA at least, I'll bet no one knew and GM is supposed to be going "Green". If so, why only flex fuel in the hogs ? Why doesn't GM promote their Cobalt's "green cred." if they're serious about snaring new buyers ? Because they don't think "entry level" buyers are worth their frigging time and enery and money.

I had a 99 Cavalier which was a trouble free and enjoyable vehicle till it was totalled in a rear ender. The logical replacement was the Cobalt, but none to be found on the Chevy lot except for 3 overloaded and overpriced examples. That was in Jan 2005.

The same situation still applies every time I have gone back: dozens of trucks and SUVs and two or three Cobalts, same colors : black white or silver and not even a salesman to come out to talk to you when you are interested in one particular model.

Similar situation when my Dad went to look at a new Chevette; the salesman couldn't be bothered and just pointed to one "over there". He wound up buying a new Subaru. That was THIRTY YEARS AGO and the attitude is still the same.

BTW: I wound up with an 05 ION which has not been trouble free [5 times for an ignition switch problem alone, strut bushings and water leaks] and continues the legacy of corporate cynicism that GM has toward the small car buyer. The engine and trans are superior and will run forever. That's about it. GM thinks that's all we deserve.

Guess what: I want a small car because I LIKE THEM, GM.

Sad but true. The bloody AVEO and it's sorry mileage don't cut it.

At least with the ION I get 26 mixed in LA and have gotten as high as 37 highway and always better than the EPA #s.

[unkillsam]

Originally Posted by Citation84

GM has shown it's contempt for the small car buyer since the Vega: the sooner they could get the customer dissatisfied with small cars, the sooner they would go back and buy mid or full size cars.

It is this sort of corporate cynicism that has cost them a couple of generations of new customers. Same as putting all your eggs in the SUV/Truck basket and ignoring your entry level and passenger car lines to "pull forward the GM 900s".

They simply do not care to cultivate the 1st time buyer like Honda and Toyota did. What improvements did the Cobalt get in it's past 4 model years ? It's being left to rot like the Cavalier was.

Even Ford improved the mpg of the Focus and has been promoting the PZEV capabilities it has. They have actually been inetrested in selling a few. There were dozens in stock when I went to test drive the 08.

The Cobalt is PZEV in CA at least, I'll bet no one knew and GM is supposed to be going "Green". If so, why only flex fuel in the hogs ? Why doesn't GM promote their Cobalt's "green cred." if they're serious about snaring new buyers ? Because they don't think "entry level" buyers are worth their frigging time and enery and money.

I had a 99 Cavalier which was a trouble free and enjoyable vehicle till it was totalled in a rear ender. The logical replacement was the Cobalt, but none to be found on the Chevy lot except for 3 overloaded and overpriced examples. That was in Jan 2005.

The same situation still applies every time I have gone back: dozens of trucks and SUVs and two or three Cobalts, same colors : black white or silver and not even a salesman to come out to talk to you when you are interested in one particular model.

Similar situation when my Dad went to look at a new Chevette; the salesman couldn't be bothered and just pointed to one "over there". He wound up buying a new Subaru. That was THIRTY YEARS AGO and the attitude is still the same.

BTW: I wound up with an 05 ION which has not been trouble free [5 times for an ignition switch problem alone, strut bushings and water leaks] and continues the legacy of corporate cynicism that GM has toward the small car buyer. The engine and trans are superior and will run forever. That's about it. GM thinks that's all we deserve.

Guess what: I want a small car because I LIKE THEM, GM.

Sad but true. The bloody AVEO and it's sorry mileage don't cut it.

At least with the ION I get 26 mixed in LA and have gotten as high as 37 highway and always better than the EPA #s.

Take into account your location. Chevy dealers in California probably automatically assume that no one is going to consider a Cobalt anyway and that all GM is know for on the West Coast is SUV's.

Thus, all they will carry is SUV's.

I did a search in my area and found well over 100 Cobalt's.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by unkillsam

Take into account your location. Chevy dealers in California probably automatically assume that no one is going to consider a Cobalt anyway and that all GM is know for on the West Coast is SUV's.

Thus, all they will carry is SUV's.

I did a search in my area and found well over 100 Cobalt's.

LOL. Probably very true, but when I bought my ION there were at least 2 dozen or more available. Haven't checked all the way out in Valencia or Fillmore, but it would be nice to find a dealer in my own area.

That said, what is the import penetration rate in So Cal anyway ? 60-70%, so yes, I see your point.

I have been on some of the other Chevrolet sites : Community, Rydell's Northridge and San Fernando [as well as Van Nuys where I bought the Cavalier] and the situation is the same : no inventory.

Good grief, when I bought the Cavalier there were two rows of them available.

One of the other posters had it right: the small car buyer is not willing to wait for a build to order and will take what's in stock. If it's not stocked they go elsewhere.

It's moot point anyway. If the ION gives any more trouble I am moving on. But it's quiet, rides smoothly and half paid off, so I might have to rethink that statement.

Would have been nice if that improved MPG Cobalt had been available like, oh last year, but chances are it will get that great engine improved mileage and still be using those POS ignition switches that are still used on the current Cobalt,the ION and Canyon and Colorado.

[BTW:There's even an aftermarket passlock by pass kit available to cure the random no start BS that goes on with them. 96 years since the first self starter and they can't get this right ???]

Otherwise I will try to look to the Cobalt first [again], Focus, Corolla, Fit or even the gas sucking Caliber.

I won't even consider the Astra, the price is ridiculous and for a "premium" small car doesn't even have AC as standard on the base models. Cut the electrical gimmicks [heated mirrors, adaptive lighting, rain sensitive wipers, power windows and mirrors, improve the mileage and lower the price or make AC standard.

Why would I bother trading what I have for an Astra when my mileage is the same or better and the Cobalt and Focus are far better values for the money [with parts and service available anywhere]?

[Elk]

Originally Posted by Citation84

Even Ford improved the mpg of the Focus and has been promoting the PZEV capabilities it has. They have actually been inetrested in selling a few. There were dozens in stock when I went to test drive the 08.

Well I doubt it had much to do with offering a PZEV version, but Focus sales are up 36% while Cobalt sells are down 22%. And I know it’s the first car I’d look at if I was looking at a compact.

Originally Posted by unkillsam

Take into account your location. Chevy dealers in California probably automatically assume that no one is going to consider a Cobalt anyway and that all GM is know for on the West Coast is SUV's.

I think he is right about GM's view on small cars. Just look at what they did with the Sunfire. For 20+ years it had one of the lowest average buyer age of any car and what did GM do. They killed it with no replacement. And when the dealers finally got GM to replace it, GM gave them a half-assed rebadge.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by Elk

Well I doubt it had much to do with offering a PZEV version, but Focus sales are up 36% while Cobalt sells are down 22%. And I know it’s the first car I’d look at if I was looking at a compact.


I think he is right about GM's view on small cars. Just look at what they did with the Sunfire. For 20+ years it had one of the lowest average buyer age of any car and what did GM do. They killed it with no replacement. And when the dealers finally got GM to replace it, GM gave them a half-assed rebadge.

Cavalier [ten years ago] had a 60% loyalty rate, the Cavalier buyer went on to another GM car when they bought their next car [GM Press release and catalog quote]. I don't know if that included the rental companies or what, but that seemed like a good customer base to cultivate.

The redo of the Focus is sure helping. I just think it's yet another missed opportunity for GM to get it's name into "green" buyers heads [ususally young 1st timers] and into the showroom to at least look.

The Cobalt sale today could mean a Chevy or Pontiac sale down the road. But that seems to have escaped GM all these years. The small car buyer to them is considered a pest, not a potential customer for life. Always short term gains at the expense of long term viability.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

I would agree with you were it not for the FACT that GM is not ignoring high MPG vehicles. They are investing hundreds of Millions of dollars in the Volt and we all know that once the VOLT hits the street it will be a game changer and much of the new technology will find its way in other GM vehicles - specifically their smaller high mileage offerings.

I believe VCDJ's point (which would probably have been clearer were it written in decent English) was that GM totally sucks at making good economy cars, and that well-engineered, well-built economy cars are hot right now (expensive gas + struggling economy).

In other words, replace "GM is ignoring high-MPG vehicles" by "GM is ignoring the economy car segment".

There's a HUGE difference between the two... a high-MPG vehicle that's outrageously expensive is a niche vehicle that will appeal only to rich greenies, whereas a good, no-nonsense high-MPG vehicle that's reasonably priced will have millions of potential buyers.

It's night and day.

The Volt, a game changer? Totally depends on price.

A 100 mpg version of the Toyota Corolla sold at, say, 20% more than the normal model... would be an absolute game changer.

A 100 mpg version of the Bentley Azure sold at, say, 20% more than the normal model... would not even be a blip on the auto market radar.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

And if you think the Volt will be low volume and high priced you are kidding yourself. GM has already said they will sell this at a loss initially to get the ball moving. Their goal is high volume. That is the only way this project can be called a success.

If GM "already said" that, then I guess they forgot to tell someone to keep his loud mouth shut.

Lutz speculates Volt could cost as much as $48K

GMI thread: Chevy Volt could set you back $48K

[hrcslam]

Originally Posted by carscomblogger

You're smoking something if you're thinking Chevy can get the Cobalt to 40 mpg hwy with altering the current engine. If it is 5% increase that's 35mpg hwy! You'd need a 20% increase in fuel efficiency to reach 40 mpg.

As for sales I broke down the obvious trends of "small cars up, big trucks down" yesterday.
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2...small-car.html

My wifes Ion will actually achieve 40+mpg hwy @70-75mph. This is in the real world not the EPA. And I also know I am not the only one achieving this either. On a trip from Colorado Springs, CO to Luther, OK and back her car averaged 41mpg there and 38 back. Wow, look a 20% increase over the EPA just by driving it in the real world. Looks like GM knows what they are doing.

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

I agree that the volume is likely to be quite moderate at best. The price will be a serious concern. The issue of the batteries ( lease/buy replace/keep ) will have to be addressed before launch. Then there is the serious question of just how big is the market for such a vehicle. It would be perfect for my wife with a 24 mi daily RT commute, but if it's $30-$35K then it better be a near-luxury vehicle. For my business it would not offer that much of a savings @ 200-400 miles a day. The more one drives the less is the benefit of the EREVs and PHEVs.

However down the road, I'm guessing 5-10 yrs, there will probably be a whole slew of e-Flex's available with a variety of power sources. I've already put a deposit down on a bio-diesel EREV....

Yes, initial cost will determine initial volume. But, we will have to wait and see how fast GM can get the price down. I can guarantee the demand is there if the price is right. If GM's goal is 200,000/yr then they will probably reach it, but not in the first year.

Am I the only one that noticed that GM will release a model for a year that will limit the amount in one way or another (whether it be Saturn, Price, etc.). Then after that year they will go all out. I think they want the first year bugs to be minimized. And it seems to work.

I also think that with the Volt's image it wont have a problem outselling the CTS the first year it's out. Let's not also forget the Volt can recharge as it drives.

Originally Posted by Citation84

LOL. Probably very true, but when I bought my ION there were at least 2 dozen or more available. Haven't checked all the way out in Valencia or Fillmore, but it would be nice to find a dealer in my own area.

That said, what is the import penetration rate in So Cal anyway ? 60-70%, so yes, I see your point.

I have been on some of the other Chevrolet sites : Community, Rydell's Northridge and San Fernando [as well as Van Nuys where I bought the Cavalier] and the situation is the same : no inventory.

Good grief, when I bought the Cavalier there were two rows of them available.

One of the other posters had it right: the small car buyer is not willing to wait for a build to order and will take what's in stock. If it's not stocked they go elsewhere.

It's moot point anyway. If the ION gives any more trouble I am moving on. But it's quiet, rides smoothly and half paid off, so I might have to rethink that statement.

Would have been nice if that improved MPG Cobalt had been available like, oh last year, but chances are it will get that great engine improved mileage and still be using those POS ignition switches that are still used on the current Cobalt,the ION and Canyon and Colorado.

[BTW:There's even an aftermarket passlock by pass kit available to cure the random no start BS that goes on with them. 96 years since the first self starter and they can't get this right ???]

Otherwise I will try to look to the Cobalt first [again], Focus, Corolla, Fit or even the gas sucking Caliber.

I won't even consider the Astra, the price is ridiculous and for a "premium" small car doesn't even have AC as standard on the base models. Cut the electrical gimmicks [heated mirrors, adaptive lighting, rain sensitive wipers, power windows and mirrors, improve the mileage and lower the price or make AC standard.

Why would I bother trading what I have for an Astra when my mileage is the same or better and the Cobalt and Focus are far better values for the money [with parts and service available anywhere]?

What problems have you had with your Ion? The only problem my wifes Ion has is the stick shifters gear indicator (the plastic piece on the top of the shifter) keeps falling off.

Originally Posted by lio45

I believe VCDJ's point (which would probably have been clearer were it written in decent English) was that GM totally sucks at making good economy cars, and that well-engineered, well-built economy cars are hot right now (expensive gas + struggling economy).

In other words, replace "GM is ignoring high-MPG vehicles" by "GM is ignoring the economy car segment".

There's a HUGE difference between the two... a high-MPG vehicle that's outrageously expensive is a niche vehicle that will appeal only to rich greenies, whereas a good, no-nonsense high-MPG vehicle that's reasonably priced will have millions of potential buyers.

It's night and day.

The Volt, a game changer? Totally depends on price.

A 100 mpg version of the Toyota Corolla sold at, say, 20% more than the normal model... would be an absolute game changer.

A 100 mpg version of the Bentley Azure sold at, say, 20% more than the normal model... would not even be a blip on the auto market radar.

If Bentley sold a 100mpg car it wouldn't matter how much it costs. It's a Bentley AND it gets 100mpg? I guarantee every single person in Hollywood will own one. It will sell, and it will sell fast. Not Camry fast I give you, but CTS fast would be expected.

Originally Posted by lio45

If GM "already said" that, then I guess they forgot to tell someone to keep his loud mouth shut.

Lutz speculates Volt could cost as much as $48K

GMI thread: Chevy Volt could set you back $48K

$48K should come down after the first year. And it's $48K for $8K in profit, $40K for no profit and anything less for a loss. If GM does get the Volt down to lets say $35K MSRP and the government give tax assistance the consumer could be looking at about $32-33K out the door. If GM does the Volt at $48K the consumer could expect $45-46K out the door. And at $40K MSRP the consumer can expect $37-38K out the door. I really hope GM takes the loss as a "marketing loss" and MSRP's them at $35K or less.