First time in 102 years: Big 3 lose majority market share to imports

[Butz]

Originally Posted by JVal14

Everyone is making such a big deal about this, but it's amazing that it's taken this long for it to happen. How many foreign brands are sold in the U.S. now? There are only three American autogroups yet I can think of twice as many foreign makers that sell in the U.S. off the top of my head. And more and more imported brands are coming to the states all the time. Everyone wants a piece of the American pie, so it's only logical that everyone's piece will shrink.

Edit:
Toyota
Honda
Volkswagen
Porsche
Nissan
BMW
Daimler-Benz (or whatever they are now)
Hyundai
Fiat (soon)

That's not even counting the low-volume elites like Ferrari, Aston Martin and Lotus. Think of all the individual brands within all those companies. I give U.S. auto credit for holding on for this long.

Tell me why it's not happening in Japan, for example.

[camaro_freak]

Originally Posted by Sinner

The path you speak of leads to mergers of the big 3 and anti-trust lawsuits.

umm....no

it leads to building class leading, not following vehicles and maybe actually setting the curve/trend/market for once instead of following it. Joint ventures wouldn't be out the question either but that hardly means they would have to merge as one giant domestic company.

innovation and styling were what drove Americans to buy vehicles in the first place. GM is NOW just starting to remember that again.

Look at how well the newer cars are doing (winning awards, praise, etc). Great cars like the Enclave, Aura, the new crossovers, and next year's CTS and Malibu are all great vehicles inside and out. GM is finally getting the grove back. Too bad it took them decades to do it

[Bolex]

Originally Posted by Butz

Tell me why it's not happening in Japan, for example.

..exactly what i was thinking...

[Bolex]

Originally Posted by Chaz_23

No surprise. And if you look at retail sales exclusively it would be a bloodbath. Americans are a shameful bunch.

agree, domestics slacked off while imports didnt....

[montrealvue]

Originally Posted by Bolex

agree, domestics slacked off while imports didnt....

Got that right, only in the last year or so I have seen any real "effort" by the Americans to clean up their act. A little late, no??? Don't expect them back on top any time soon.... its a long way back to the top.

[N8s07ss]

Originally Posted by Butz

Tell me why it's not happening in Japan, for example.

Well, I'm no expert, but many on here have described the barriers Japan's gov't. puts in place to ensure the superiority of domestic products. Ask Duspinnst.

[JVal14]

Originally Posted by Butz

Tell me why it's not happening in Japan, for example.

I don't know whether or not it's happening in Japan; and if it's not, I couldn't say why it isn't because I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of auto-consumerism in Japan, nor the domestic or auto brands that are offered there. It could because a weak yen would make most imported cars very expensive, so some makers either stay out or cheapen their cars; but to be honest it doesn't really concern me. My point is that people seem to see this as more evidence that domestic automakers in the U.S. are doomed, while I see it as impressive that they've held out this long considering they are, essentially, outnumbered.

[Bolex]

Originally Posted by N8s07ss

Well, I'm no expert, but many on here have described the barriers Japan's gov't. puts in place to ensure the superiority of domestic products. Ask Duspinnst.

see when i hear stuff like that it gets more upsetting. so this tells me that it isnt just the American auto industry thats the problem, but America itself? see, again dont blame them (imports) blame us. its a shame, really.

[adplusone]

1,223 and 1....(thats 102 years for those of you that are mathematically challenged)

Not a bad record...

[Bolex]

Originally Posted by JVal14

My point is that people seem to see this as more evidence that domestic automakers in the U.S. are doomed, while I see it as impressive that they've held out this long considering they are, essentially, outnumbered.

outnumbered? by whom? how many brands does GM have, plus 4 brands from Chrysler and 3 from Ford. they should have held out on home turf, no matter what the hell happened.

[Porkfriedrice]

Originally Posted by camaro_freak

They could have easily stayed competitive.

Domestics had a golden opportunity to clean house when each import came to town (especially those from Asia markets), but chose to do nothing but sit on their past accomplishments and continue to sell what they were comfortable making: big boat, cushy riding behemoths

Really. Isnt this the same arguement used by import lovers around the US? Now im not a lover of GM, but i think the steps they have taken lately are i nthe right direction. Even then, the product costs were astronomical, especially compared to the newcomers. Pension and retirement funds are a big part of what pulling all domestic companys down and the reason why Mercedes basically gave money to Cerebrus to buy Chrysler. Big trucks is simply what gave them a return in their investment. It makes economic sence. The domestics didnt even make money on small cars on average so the main reason was to grab sales that were otherwise going to the imports. Downsizing like you see today is the solution. Not the whole solution, but part of it.

I find it ironic that the Camaro was built as a competitor to the wildly sucessfull Mustang, which in turn was based of of Fords own compact car at the time. The small Falcon.

In summary; clean house my a**

[N8s07ss]

Originally Posted by Bolex

see when i hear stuff like that it gets more upsetting. so this tells me that it isnt just the American auto industry thats the problem, but America itself? see, again dont blame them (imports) blame us. its a shame, really.

I'm confused, why did my post make you think the problem is with Americans?

[Dirk Wiggler]

Originally Posted by Butz

Tell me why it's not happening in Japan, for example.

Oh yeah-- the Japanese market is completely unprotected.

[JVal14]

outnumbered? by whom?

Toyota, Scion, Lexus, Honda, Acura, Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, Subaru, Nissan, Infiniti, BMW, Mini, Hyundai, Kia, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Mercedes Benz, Maybach, Panoz, Mitsubishi, SMART, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Lotus...
This doesn't count the miscellaneous companies that have come and gone, or the ones that will soon be coming from China, India and elsewhere, or the companies that are partially owned by domestics. That's a whole lot of people for you to have to share your market with.

[Hunid Racks]

And let's not forget that foreclosures and bankruptcies are heading toward new heights.

But let's not forget the Toyota salepeople on this board will tell you there is no relation to the two events.