Canadian auto sales down, but Ford bucks the trend

[ARCANGEL]

Originally Posted by K-1

Again, until the Q3 financials come out, that's all speculation. It's not all roses over at Ford. Fleet sales were way up last month and retail was down. The market is still very much in a state of flux.

Yes but that is across the board and as of the big 3 they are handiling it the best. Most GM fans assertion otherwise.

[K-1]

Originally Posted by ARCANGEL

Yes but that is across the board and as of the big 3 they are handiling it the best.

Exactly. And as such, you can't state who is handling it the best. That may be your opinion, but that doesn't make it true. Both GM and Ford have their highs and lows.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by K-1

Exactly. And as such, you can't state who is handling it the best. That may be your opinion, but that doesn't make it true. Both GM and Ford have their highs and lows.

Oh, please. Its not only Arcangel, EVERYBODY but the most rabid fans acknowledge Ford\s much better management.

New GM is being managed by the same bunch that ran old GM to the ground.

[ARCANGEL]

Originally Posted by Simon says

Oh, please. Its not only Arcangel, EVERYBODY but the most rabid fans acknowledge Fords much better management.

New GM is being managed by the same bunch that ran old GM to the ground.

Thanks Simon

[K-1]

Originally Posted by Simon says

Oh, please. Its not only Arcangel, EVERYBODY but the most rabid fans acknowledge Fords much better management.

New GM is being managed by the same bunch that ran old GM to the ground.

Oh, I'm sorry, you must be blind or severely handicapped. Have you not noticed the new Board? The new CEO? The shake-up of upper management and the overall clearing out of executive/managerial ranks? Yep, totally the same bunch.

And, again, just because you say it, he says it, and "EVERYBODY" says it, doesn't make it true unless the financials and sales reports confirm it. That's the piece of the puzzle you guys are missing. We've seen the sales numbers, with GM still way out in front. If there's a tremendous difference in the financials (the operating section), then you guys can pop open the champagne. Until then, the future is unknown.

[mpsrent]

Originally Posted by ARCANGEL

dont count your chickens before they hatch many of them are stillborn... your post is mere speculation and assumption. right now Ford is being run smartly and it is showing, numbers don't lie.

And to top it off, the average Canadian car buyer, the non enthusiast type has a very positive image of Ford. Whatever Ford is doing, they are pushing all the right buttons. All the positive media Ford is receving is drawing car and truck buyers into their showrooms. I see more and more new Fords in driveways and on the roads, including people who owned other brands.

My next door neighbour came home with a brand new F150 last month. His trade? A Silverado. Ford Focus's are everywhere. The Edge is still plentiful as are Escapes. Ford has a balanced product line that appears to be hitting the mark with joe average consumers.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by K-1

Oh, I'm sorry, you must be blind or severely handicapped. Have you not noticed the new Board? The new CEO? The shake-up of upper management and the overall clearing out of executive/managerial ranks? Yep, totally the same bunch.

Henderson, Lutz, LaNeve, et al . . . same bunch indeed. You know as well as anyone else that the new Chairman is as decorative as a watercolor.

Originally Posted by K-1

And, again, just because you say it, he says it, and "EVERYBODY" says it, doesn't make it true unless the financials and sales reports confirm it. That's the piece of the puzzle you guys are missing. We've seen the sales numbers, with GM still way out in front.

FACT: Ford posted sales gains in July and August and did pretty good for september considering the general debacle.
FACT: Ford, Lincoln and Mercury U.S. third quarter sales increased 5 percent versus a year ago and U.S. market share increased 2 points, making Ford the only full line automaker in the US posting any sales gain for the quarter.
FACT: Ford stock price has raised 5 fold this year.
FACT: Most analyst on outlook on Ford is very positive.

Originally Posted by K-1

We've seen the sales numbers, with GM still way out in front. If there's a tremendous difference in the financials (the operating section), then you guys can pop open the champagne. Until then, the future is unknown.

GM sales more because they are bigger, have more dealers and have huge fleet sales.

Unlike you regarding Ford, I as well as most Ford people I know, have no reason to celebrate GM's demise. But if it comes to Ford's continuous successes that Champaign was uncorked a long time ago.

The future is always unknown, but for Ford it sure looks good.

[GMJoe]

Fact: Ford is mortaged up the rear end.( Borrowed millions to keep running)

Fact: Toyota is in finantial straights. Where are all those guys who were telling us how profitable and well run Toyota was????

So you Ford Freeks, don't get so smug about how well run Ford is.

Let's see how GM and Ford compare a year from now and see if you Fordies still have something to crow about!

[Extreme4x4]

Correction:

Ford borrowed billions to restructure their company, counting on the fact that there would probably be a pretty good recession in there (of course nobody could predict how bad this one was).

They did not borrow money to keep the lights on.

You are mistaking GM's bailout, and Fords loan. GM's bailout WAS to keep the lights on.

[page2171]

Originally Posted by GMJoe

Fact: Ford is mortaged up the rear end.( Borrowed millions to keep running)

Fact: Toyota is in finantial straights. Where are all those guys who were telling us how profitable and well run Toyota was????

So you Ford Freeks, don't get so smug about how well run Ford is.

Let's see how GM and Ford compare a year from now and see if you Fordies still have something to crow about!

Fact: GM went through bankruptcy.

Fact: GM wouldn't be here except for a bailout by the U.S. government.

So, you GM fanboys, don't act like GM's **** doesn't stink.

[W.A.F.U.]

Originally Posted by page2171

Fact: GM went through bankruptcy.

Fact: GM wouldn't be here except for a bailout by the U.S. government.

So, you GM fanboys, don't act like GM's **** doesn't stink.

Fact: Without the bailout for GM and Chrysler, parts suppliers would have dropped like flies also into bankruptcy most likely taking Ford's ability to build new cars with it.

So how about both the GM and Ford fanboys stop arguing already.

[bone]

Originally Posted by mpsrent

And to top it off, the average Canadian car buyer, the non enthusiast type has a very positive image of Ford. Whatever Ford is doing, they are pushing all the right buttons. All the positive media Ford is receving is drawing car and truck buyers into their showrooms. I see more and more new Fords in driveways and on the roads, including people who owned other brands.

My next door neighbour came home with a brand new F150 last month. His trade? A Silverado. Ford Focus's are everywhere. The Edge is still plentiful as are Escapes. Ford has a balanced product line that appears to be hitting the mark with joe average consumers.

And a neigbour just down from our house, who has been a Pontiac diehard all his life, just traded in his G6 for a 2009 Fusion. I agree with those who argue that Ford under Mullally is better managed than GM under Henderson. The only two GM execs I have any use for are Lutz and Reuss.

[doh]

Originally Posted by bone

And a neigbour just down from our house, who has been a Pontiac diehard all his life, just traded in his G6 for a 2009 Fusion. I agree with those who argue that Ford under Mullally is better managed than GM under Henderson. The only two GM execs I have any use for are Lutz and Reuss.

You would be surprised how many "We have always driven GM," folk I am seeing daily on the Ford lot.

They almost match the "I have aleays driven a Ford" customers

There is more to this than just loosing Pontiac People know what is going on

[tgagneguam]

It's funny to watch this discussion, mostly because many of the points being brought up for both sides are true. It's just that the Ford supporters support the positive Ford points/negative GM points, and the GM supporters support the positive GM points/negative Ford points.

Incidentally, saying how many people in your neighborhood are driving Fords (or GM vehicles) is completely pointless. If that were the barometer of national sales, then, based on my rural location, the Dodge Ram would be the best selling vehicle in the country (I live close to a Dodge/Chrysler dealership), and the luxury imports would easily be outsold by the Chrysler 300. See the bias, kids?

Of course, and again using the logic of anecdotal evidence, when I was in West Palm Beach for a conference, I'd swear that Mercedes-Benz is the best selling brand in the U.S., and Bentley might be the second best selling brand. Funny, not a Ford or GM model-or a Dodge Ram!-to be found outside of the chi-chi boutiques, either.

[neshapop]

Originally Posted by mpsrent

And to top it off, the average Canadian car buyer, the non enthusiast type has a very positive image of Ford. Whatever Ford is doing, they are pushing all the right buttons. All the positive media Ford is receving is drawing car and truck buyers into their showrooms. I see more and more new Fords in driveways and on the roads, including people who owned other brands.

My next door neighbour came home with a brand new F150 last month. His trade? A Silverado. Ford Focus's are everywhere. The Edge is still plentiful as are Escapes. Ford has a balanced product line that appears to be hitting the mark with joe average consumers.

All my neighbors replaced their Fords with Toyota and Chevy, individual perception is not a statistic. Ford has 4.7% increase in sales YTD but Hyundai and Kia 26.3% and 20.4%, Audi 25.3%, MB 17.9% and I can see that on the roads. Ford cars look newer and better comparing to old models but nothing like setting the world on fire, just better than before and sales numbers just show that. GM Canada car sales are in decline 40-50% for months now because beside a few products (CTS, Malibu, Camaro) everything else was stale and not competitve.

Originally Posted by Extreme4x4

Correction:

Ford borrowed billions to restructure their company, counting on the fact that there would probably be a pretty good recession in there (of course nobody could predict how bad this one was).

They did not borrow money to keep the lights on.

You are mistaking GM's bailout, and Fords loan. GM's bailout WAS to keep the lights on.

Being own by the bank or the government is the same dire position to me comparing to other healthy businesses.