What if Olds never died?

[zabraden]

Let's pretend for a minute here. Imagine we're sitting here, today, blogging away on GMI. The world is exactly the same as it is today, except for one difference: Oldsmobile was never killed. By some amazing stroke of luck, Oldsmobile was spared. No brand was killed in it's place, GM still has all nine brands it had back in 2001.

What I'm wondering, is how GM's corporate structure, and the Oldsmobile brand itself, would have evolved over time. What would Olds' lineup look like today? Would it still use the Alero, Intrigue, Aurora, and Bravada names, or would it go back to classics like 442, Cutlass, 88, 98, and Toronado? How would GM have evolved with Olds still included. How would they be facing the current CAFE standards, and how would GM's brand structure look?

I personally think Olds would be paired with Saturn, but cannot begin to think beyond that. If anyone has any ideas or theories, I would love to here them.

Oh, and please, let's keep cynicism to a minimum. I know a topic like this makes it easy, but how about we don't just state the obvious for once.

[eurohazard]

When it happened, I was so shocked and dismayed. I couldn't understand why GM would kill such a storied brand like Oldsmobile. (Chrysler did the same with Plymouth at about the same time too).

In hindsight, maybe GM should have took out another division too, probably Buick and maybe even GMC too. The Intrigue was starting to be such a good import fighter (Accord/Camry/Maxima).....so I'd like to think they'd keep it.......but they'd probably have renamed it. Basically GM would be a bigger mess if they would have kept it.....although it pains me to say that.

But to answer your question, I have no doubt there'd be ANOTHER Lambda.....an Oldsmobile Buttpuppet. Olds would have had a Trailblazer/Envoy and likely would have changed the name too (Blazer/Jimmy).

[Hitman1970]

All I can say is that I would have bought a 2006 Oldmobile Intrigue with 3.6L in black with gray leather interior.

[baby-vortec2900]

Interesting concept...

I am kind of glad that they did not keep Olds around as they would be a brand of nothing but rebadges more then likely. Hardly any personality at all. IMO its time the car makers realize that it is time to axe rebadges as the main composition of a brand and make more models unique to the brand. This makes for brand identity and does away with there being 5 different cars that are all built on the same platform. And the difference between a Chevy and a Olds should not be a different cheap platic logo on the front and a different name on the back of the car.

[MCGARRETT]

But to answer your question, I have no doubt there'd be ANOTHER Lambda.....an Oldsmobile Buttpuppet. Olds would have had a Trailblazer/Envoy and likely would have changed the name too (Blazer/Jimmy).

Uhhhh, Oldsmobile did have a "Trailvoy", when they launched in 2001 there was a Chevrolet Trailblazer, GMC Envoy and an Oldsmobile Bravada, it was really nice actually, GM was able to cover some of the Bravadas cost by making the Buick Rainier after the Oldsmobiles were gone.


Yes, they might have a Lambda, because the probably would not be a Saturn Outlook, the main question is not just what Oldsmobile would be like today, but what all the other divisions would be like today as well, i.e "The Buttterfly Effect" of not murdering Oldsmobile(it did not "die").

Chevrolet would probably be the same, though perhaps the Volt might not be a Chevrolet(or at least a car like the Volt, remember that Olds was the "experimental" division for GM)

Saturn would not have moved upscale, if everything was kept at year 2000 levels, Saturn would still be operating out of Spring Hill making the ION and the Vue, though hopefully they would be better than last ION's, (which probably should have been what was done, i.e a major re-do of the ION instead of importing the Astra, seeing the warm reception that the Astra has gotten, or at least a "Saturn-ized" Cobalt made in L-town)

Maybe Saturn would have kept the plastic paneled semi-autonomous plan that they had before and Oldsmobile would be getting the Opels? Though I am not sure that it's a good idea.

I would expect that Olds might still have an Epsilon based Alero sedan and coupe, which means that the G6 would probably look completely different, (good or bad?) Olds did show a small SUV concept during their last years called the Recon, they might be offering something like that today on the Equinox/Torrent platform, though there may have not been a Torrent either.

Buick would probably not have the really bland Lucerne and LaCrosse, and it would have not have had vehicles that did not fit forced into their line up, like the Terraza and Ranier(same can be said for the Saturn Relay)

Though a CSV Oldsmobile Shilouette might have not been a winner either, the Shilouette would have still been the Cadillac of Minivans(see Get Shorty)

Would Oldsmobile still be moving a W body based Intrigue? Perhaps if Oldsmobile would have lived and the Intrigues sales increased, GM would have a new mid-large FWD platform out sooner to replace the W's? We're still waiting for EPII.

Also, note that the last Auroras were really supposed to replace the Delta88 cars, they were to be called Antares, the real replacement for the 1995-2000 Aurora gen 1 was killed along with the replacement for the 1995-1999 Riviera and the next gen Eldorado.

There are sooooo many variables.. .


What if Oldsmobile had moved foward with the OSV(Oldsmobile Specialty Vehicles) line?

Would we have Oldsmobiles tuned on the Ring today?

OSV did show some neat stuff, they had an Alero with the 250 3.5 V6 Shortstar stuffed in it(GXP G6 anyone?) and an Intrigue with the Aurora 4.0 litre (again Impala SS and LaCrosse Super?)

What if they would have done the smart thing and merged Oldsmobile franchises with Saturn retailers, maybe even with a floating GMC franchise where needed? Both makes could have helped each other.

There would have been no need for Aura with the Alero, Saturn woud have the ION, VUE and SKY and Oldsmobile, being the in the same store, would be the direct move up, with the Alero, Intrigue, Bravada, Shillouette and Aurora.


I thought that perhaps they could have had Saturn-Oldsmobile-Isuzu franchises making a PBG with Isuzu selling the Hombre, Axiom and maybe an Isuzu version of the full size GM trucks.(or maybe a Saturn-Olds-Suzuki set up?)

[GMC-70]

^^^ ya basically Saturn has pretty much turned into what would have been today's Oldsmobile. Funny thing is I think they should have kept Saturn as it was and just improved the product.

[Hitman1970]

Red Planet, Rocket Division.... what's the difference? Sigh. What could have been....

[baby-vortec2900]

Originally Posted by Hitman1970

Red Planet, Rocket Division.... what's the difference? Sigh. What could have been....

One problem with that, Mars is the red planet

[Hitman1970]

Originally Posted by baby-vortec2900

One problem with that, Mars is the red planet

Touche.

[ejfx]

Drop Saturn / or never create it

Move Cadillac upscale
Move up Buick to take Cadillacs old spot
Oldsmobile stays middle of the road on price
Pontiac remains a sporty Chevy
Chevy remains entry level

There is no overlap
The full price range is covered

[Ttple]

The demise of Oldsmobile was no shocker. GM had been threatening to get rid of it for years. It was only a matter of time. I've always thought that Oldsmobile was the best GM brand. They were a little sportier and better looking than Buicks and were never over the top like Pontiac. They were really onto something with the Intrigue. A little fine tuning would have made it a great car. I wish they were smart and kept Olds and said goodbye to Buick and Pontiac.

[baby-vortec2900]

Originally Posted by ejfx

Drop Saturn / or never create it

Move Cadillac upscale
Move up Buick to take Cadillacs old spot
Oldsmobile stays middle of the road on price
Pontiac remains a sporty Chevy
Chevy remains entry level

There is no overlap
The full price range is covered

Or make Saturn GM's version of scion: really small but really economical subcompacts for cheap. Then your linup is complete

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

Uhhhh, Oldsmobile did have a "Trailvoy", when they launched in 2001 there was a Chevrolet Trailblazer, GMC Envoy and an Oldsmobile Bravada, it was really nice actually, GM was able to cover some of the Bravadas cost by making the Buick Rainier after the Oldsmobiles were gone.

Good call.....a totally forgettable vehicle it was! I mean I remember the Buick Rainer, Isuzu Ascender and the Saab 9-7. What was GM thinking?

One of my favorite videos on the internet for a while was a V8 Rainer racing a Nissan Armada. The cameraman/driver in the Buick was talking a lot of poo.........but he got real quiet when the Armada whooped in the end.

[osv_alero]

There would be two in my driveway. One for me and one for my wife. It was the only GM brand that did not have a vehicle my wife and I didn't like.

It still saddens my heart to think of it being gone. The closing did get me into Road and Track, Motorweek, The New York Times, The LA Times and more. I would give all that back to still have Oldsmobile.






And the tears are falling with the thought of Ransom's GREAT company being gone.

[F14CRAZY]

I read that Saturn's were styled like Oldsmobiles are the time in case they were to be merged, which I do see if you compare '90s Olds' and Saturns

I think its true that GM was producing too many different vehicles...but wasn't Oldsmobile selling ok and making them money? As mentioned I think they were onto something with the Intrigue.

The Alero, Grand Am, and Malibu were all substantially different from each other

Intrigue was substantially different from the Impala, Grand Prix, Regal...heck it had its own 3.5L DOHC...the rest pretty much used the 3800

Aurora was substantially different from the Seville/STS, Bonneville, Park Avenue, and that also had its own 4.0L DOHC

Bravada to me was the best looking GMT360

Silhouette had its buyers and followers.

God where'd they go wrong? Most of the vehicles I mentioned above may have shared the same platform but were all much different from each other. NO easy rebadges at all. These days there's tons of speculation of Saturn, Pontiac, and other brands getting the ax?