Why...why....why..???

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by 377Z

Unfortunately for me, manual trans 4x4 SUV's with 2 speed transfer cases are hens teeth these days. Xterra and Liberty, that's it. My last one was a 1991 Explorer XLT 4 door 5 speed--favorite vehicle I have ever owned. If I go with a 4X4 again it will be an Xterra for me, since the Liberty is too compact for its heft and I can't get past the styling (Xterra is no spring chicken either, but I think I could live with it).

Funny thing is, Ford tooled up a 5 speed model in 2002, then dropped it in 2003. Just my luck, I was in the market in 2004, and though they bloated it too much, I still would've bought the Ex had it had a manual. Must've done it for CAFE, only thing that might make sense.

I personally manage to keep my vehicles on the road. 4x4s with 2 speed transfer cases is overkill for me. I'm looking at a 4x2 Patriot Limited. I have never gotten stuck in the snow with a fwd manual.

[Missinmy5speed]

Originally Posted by GMCdriver

You know what is really hard to find now? A vehicle with a nice hand crank starter on the front.
I really love to be in touch with my vehicles, you know, feeling the cylinders going up and down as I turn the crank.
I hate these stupid electric starters. Just another fancy do-hickey to fail on you.
You know why they did it don't you, why they got rid of the hand crank?
To make money off of you suckers who are too lazy to do a little work to get your vehicle going and make money on all the starter jobs they will get to do on the vehicles.

These Electronic Transfer Cases and Automatic Transmisions are just the car companies sticking it to the consumer again.

I love nut job conspiracies.

Never fails. Every message board you go to has some kind of 3 year old acting trolls trying to derail everything. If you dont like my thread...dont read it and better yet....dont try to hijack it with some bs like that. Grow up...

Is this board even moderated?

Thanks to those who have given honest considerate opinions. There are still a lot of us out there who prefer to change our own gears and are still passionate about what we drive. I thought this was the Letters to GM area? Not the nursery...

[F14CRAZY]

I agree. More manuals please.

[AndrewGS]

Originally Posted by GMCdriver

You know what is really hard to find now? A vehicle with a nice hand crank starter on the front.
I really love to be in touch with my vehicles, you know, feeling the cylinders going up and down as I turn the crank.
I hate these stupid electric starters. Just another fancy do-hickey to fail on you.
You know why they did it don't you, why they got rid of the hand crank?
To make money off of you suckers who are too lazy to do a little work to get your vehicle going and make money on all the starter jobs they will get to do on the vehicles.

These Electronic Transfer Cases and Automatic Transmisions are just the car companies sticking it to the consumer again.

While hilarious, it's not exactly the same thing.

I think it is idiotic that just ten years ago you could get a manual in basically every configuration of GM pickup, but now everything is automatic only. You cannot buy any Silverado or Sierra with a manual and all SUVs and crossovers are manditory automatic as well. Ford and Chrysler have come down on the number of manual models as well, but they haven't abolished them like GM.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

I personally manage to keep my vehicles on the road. 4x4s with 2 speed transfer cases is overkill for me. I'm looking at a 4x2 Patriot Limited. I have never gotten stuck in the snow with a fwd manual.

I would've loved to keep the '91, but I bought it used @ 9 years old & it already had rust (like almost all first gen Explorers, the rocker panel right ahead of the rear wheels was gone). It doesn't help that they salt the snot out of the roads here, I'm surprised that Lake Michigan isn't salinated yet. By the time I got rid of it, it was just a bucket of rust.

Anything more than an Aveo is overkill for me (heck a motorcycle would do if it didn't snow here); I could get by with no more. I could even get by with an automatic, but the point is I don't want to. That '91 was the perfect vehicle for me & if I could somehow magically buy a new one just like it the door WOULD hit the GTO on its @ss on its way out.

If I'm part of an insignificant market & there comes a time when there are no vehicles with a stick and hi/low transfer case, so be it. But, while there are, I will give my business to those who cater to me. Thats why my last every day car was an Accord--there were no comparable American cars that came with a stick, so Honda got my business.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by Missinmy5speed

Never fails. Every message board you go to has some kind of 3 year old acting trolls trying to derail everything. If you dont like my thread...dont read it and better yet....dont try to hijack it with some bs like that. Grow up...

Is this board even moderated?

Thanks to those who have given honest considerate opinions. There are still a lot of us out there who prefer to change our own gears and are still passionate about what we drive. I thought this was the Letters to GM area? Not the nursery...

It is, and I can send both of you on a vacation.
He isnt trying to detrail your thread, he is giving a bit more radical opinon to yours, how ever childish it might be.
I agree with his opinion, the manual transmission is becoming a relic in a truck. Most people no longer want to deal with a manual transmision in a heavy truck. GM is applealing to the 98% of the truck market.

[likearock00]

Originally Posted by AndrewGS

While hilarious, it's not exactly the same thing.

I think it is idiotic that just ten years ago you could get a manual in basically every configuration of GM pickup, but now everything is automatic only. You cannot buy any Silverado or Sierra with a manual and all SUVs and crossovers are manditory automatic as well. Ford and Chrysler have come down on the number of manual models as well, but they haven't abolished them like GM.

Andrew, look at the buyer's profile. 10 years ago, the truck/SUV craze was just beginning. The majority of buyers back then were farmers and construction workers. The trucks weren't made so much for utility as they were for work. Fast forward 10 years and now they are as quiet/comfortable/enjoyable as almost every car out there. The manufactuters are just trying to cater to the soccer moms and business people out there who look down on a manual tranny.

[GMCdriver]

First let me apologize for any offense anyone took to my previous post.
I may have shot to high with my attempt to use satire to make a point in that post.

Once upon a time, Manual tranny = Greater towing and hauling capacities.
Now'a days, an Automatic tranny = Greater towing and hauling capacities.

The decline in manual take rates isn't solely the fault of soccer mom's and weekend home improvement posers.
My dad is in construction(commercial/industrial not residential).
Most of my uncles are farmers.
Back in the 80s and early 90s most of them had manuals because they were the superior and most versatile work horse.
They all drive Autos now.
They still pull livestock trailers full of animals and drag farm implements out of fields and dad still hauls truckloads of material and pulls the bobcat trailer to the sites they need it at.
They don't feel that GM abandoned them but rather, that GM provided them a better tool for getting their work done.

I'm sure there will always be a market for manuals but as it shrinks I'm not sure it makes sense for everyone to try and service it. There won't be any money in it unless the people who want it are willing to pay a premium to get it. Right now the general shopping mentality is that a stick should cost the customer less and most carmakers are finding that they can't get enough people to take it at that lower price to allow them to make money off of it. Right now most carmakers think that if they raise the price of a stick shift to a profitable level for it's volume that the volume would fall off further thus negating the advantage of the price increase. I think a good test would be for auto makers to charge enough for it that they are making money even at a low scale volume and see how many people still feel that the need/want it.

[Deep Blue]

Originally Posted by GMCdriver

First let me apologize for any offense anyone took to my previous post.
I may have shot to high with my attempt to use satire to make a point in that post.

Once upon a time, Manual tranny = Greater towing and hauling capacities.
Now'a days, an Automatic tranny = Greater towing and hauling capacities.

The decline in manual take rates isn't solely the fault of soccer mom's and weekend home improvement posers.
My dad is in construction(commercial/industrial not residential).
Most of my uncles are farmers.
Back in the 80s and early 90s most of them had manuals because they were the superior and most versatile work horse.
They all drive Autos now.
They still pull livestock trailers full of animals and drag farm implements out of fields and dad still hauls truckloads of material and pulls the bobcat trailer to the sites they need it at.
They don't feel that GM abandoned them but rather, that GM provided them a better tool for getting their work done.

I'm sure there will always be a market for manuals but as it shrinks I'm not sure it makes sense for everyone to try and service it. There won't be any money in it unless the people who want it are willing to pay a premium to get it. Right now the general shopping mentality is that a stick should cost the customer less and most carmakers are finding that they can't get enough people to take it at that lower price to allow them to make money off of it. Right now most carmakers think that if they raise the price of a stick shift to a profitable level for it's volume that the volume would fall off further thus negating the advantage of the price increase. I think a good test would be for auto makers to charge enough for it that they are making money even at a low scale volume and see how many people still feel that the need/want it.

Most who really enjoy driving a manual would not mind paying for a good one. It was actually an extra charge option on the outgoing GTO as I recall. For years, automatics cost more and those who preferred them paid the price-which is why they make up the lions share of the market today.

[GMCdriver]

Originally Posted by Deep Blue

Most who really enjoy driving a manual would not mind paying for a good one. It was actually an extra charge option on the outgoing GTO as I recall. For years, automatics cost more and those who preferred them paid the price-which is why they make up the lions share of the market today.

I was unaware of the extra charge option on the GTO(we don't get those here)
I really don't know very much about GTOs but from what you guys saw was the extra cost stick profitable & successful for GM?

[2002 Caddy]

I would answer this with... The numbers speak for themselves...

The GTO was rushed to market lacking several key options... like Onstar for example and the only thing worse then the execution of this car was the non-existent marketing campaign that accompanied it... It was almost like GM was counting on the automotive press to go ga-ga over the return the of the GTO name plate... That happened for about 3 weeks and then that was it...

As a result the GTO was a bit of a sales flop (only about 14,000 per year or 40,000 over 3 years) of these almost 2/3s came with manual gear boxes. This ratio of manual gear boxes over autos also makes this car "odd" in the US market... This tells you two things:
1) Yes US buyers will pay more for a manual gear box, but
2) Not many of them will...

You have to go along way to find another car where manual production outnumber slush boxes.. Even Corvettes are 60/40 more likely to get an automatic then a stick. BMW 3 series even more are autos (about 67%).

[GMCdriver]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

I would answer this with... The numbers speak for themselves...

The GTO was rushed to market lacking several key options... like Onstar for example and the only thing worse then the execution of this car was the non-existent marketing campaign that accompanied it... It was almost like GM was counting on the automotive press to go ga-ga over the return the of the GTO name plate... That happened for about 3 weeks and then that was it...

As a result the GTO was a bit of a sales flop (only about 14,000 per year or 40,000 over 3 years) of these about 2/3s came with manual gear boxes. This ratio of manual gear boxes over autos also makes this car "odd" in the US market... You will go along way to find another car where manuals outnumber slush boxes.. Even Corvettes are 60/40 more likely to get an automatic then a stick.

Good to know.
So basicly the GTO had a 66% take rate on it's manual even though GM charged a premium price for it.
Had I gotten that question on the "Power of 10", Drew would be shaking my hand and sending me on my way.
Now my next question is, are GTO's with manuals holding that premium into their resale value?