Too Much Service - 2003 Saturn Vue 6cyl 2WD 50K

[robroy_1]

Hello GM;

We have now 2 Saturns, 2003 Saturn Vue 6cyl 2WD and 2007 Saturn Ion 2. While my wife likes the steering of the Vue and I like the 35mpg of the Ion, the Vue has had enough issues to shake my wife's faith in GM products. So far in the 2007, we have only had to replace the front headlamp assembly at 10K, no other warranty issues as yet. So she has not soured on the Ion as yet, but she was thinking to update her Vue to a 2008 model this next year.

The problems and the way they were dealt with:

#1
Vue, brake shimmy, rotor resurfaced at 5k.
Vue, brake shimmy, rotors replaced at 15k.
Vue, brake shimmy, rotor resurfaced at 25k.
Vue, brake shimmy, rotors replaced at 35k.
Vue, brake shimmy at 45K
Had letter from previous service manager, stating all rotor repairs to be done at cost.
New service manager would not honor letter.
I replaced rotors with EBW dimpled/slotted lifetime warranty for $175 vs dealer estimate $475

Background: Wife drove GM venture van 150K not one rotor or brake issue previous to this vehicle. Same route to work, etc.

Suggestion: Fix the manufacturing issue with the rotors or whatever is the root cause. and dont tell me it is the driver, I am an engineer used to studying problems and while my wife is my problem, she is not the cause of the rotor problem.

#2
Vue, engine failed on 150 mile trip to parents for Christmas (Odometer=50K).
Long tow, big charge to get back to dealer for repair.

Mechanical replaced two senders in fuel tank. Only one had the wire disconnect from the electrical contact pad on the potentiometer. The wires have no strain relief whatsoever and I am amazed that this has escaped notice. The dealer tells me there were no TSB's for the senders, yet the mechanic replaced both senders and charged me for both.

22716733 $109.95 SENSOR KIT
22716734 $113.26 SENSOR KIT

Now so far I have been charged for an extra sensor. Unless the new ones have strain relief built into the wire I dont feel that I have been dealt fairly with at all.

One more note here, and it I fear is worse than the careless replacement of a working sensor:

Both sensor kits indicate clearly that a new appropriate strain filter must be installed to avoid voiding the warranty.

There is no charge for part listed for the appropriate strain filter on this repair.

I dont know that the labor charge would change if the new appropriate strain filter were installed, or if the mechanic only installed one sensor. But as it stands the labor charge for this service was $360, with parts and tax it came to a total of $594.37 for a broken wire on a part that had no strain relief designed on it which after some number of vibrations that more than likely can be determined mathematically, one or both of the wires is going to break.

By the way, both sensors read correctly on the VoltOhm Meter with no intermittent readings, they both change incrementally as one would expect. I have the boxes for the replacement senders, and both of the replaced senders on hand if QC/ QA folks would like to test them. The point of separation was the between the pad and the wire with solder on it. THere was NO damage to the pad or the wire at the break point. It appears that the solder sheared or was not sufficiently heated at time of manufacture. I have a couple of photos taken through my 40X stereo microscope for anyone interested as well as pictures showing the perfectly good replaced sender unit with VOM readings for hi, mid, and low points.

In addition (finally), when the vehicle failed. With a OBDC code reader the ECM did not provide a code for an open fuel sender, IT HAD NO CODES WHATSOEVER. I suggest that perhaps it might have helped if there was a code for this defined and transmitted.

I keep the OBDC reader on hand so that I can make somewhat more informed decisions when the check engine lamp illuminates. I would suggest that GM build in user support to get the codes without external equipment in all vehicles

Sincerely,
Rob Roy

[goodwrench1]

Originally Posted by robroy_1

I replaced rotors with EBW dimpled/slotted lifetime warranty for $175 vs dealer estimate $475

Hows that working out?

[ChevroletTough]

it sounds like you got a lemon. I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. Ive heard good things about the Vue. With the rotor issue.... Don't get them resurfaced ever... unless you have a truck. I'm not a professional mechanic, but I'm a weekend gear head, I work on cars for a lot of friends and family. I tell people that if they don't have a truck (or full size van) the rotors arn't large and therefore resurfacing the rotors just wears them down and is a temp fix. I'm not sure of the size of the rotors on your Vue, but I never resurface, I always buy new. Brake shimmy's usually indicate a warped rotor. But it could also be due to a bad brake pad.

I once had a shimmy in the truck around 50mph, have you noticed the shimmy at a certian speed? If so then it might be a wrongly worn tire due to improper inflation and/or neglect of rotation/weight. I'm not saying it's your fault, I'm just trying to help. hope some of my insight helps.

[Mischief007]

I wouldn't say it is a lemon. The sensor's look like it was just your bad luck with them. I haven't personally seen this problem with the Vue vehicles.

As far as the brakes, kinda common problem with GM vehicles. I purchased aftermarket rotors and pads because I heard good reviews to improve stopping distance. To ease your mind, I bought a set of new rotors from NAPA which made my vehicle vibrate horribly under braking. I was able to return them thankfully, saving me $200.

Things break. I think some cars today are under engineered and not just GM vehicles. I've heard stories like that from almost every manufacturer.

[Triple-X08]

rotor quality isnt nothing new, hell every gm car on the road has a pulsation.

not sure why the sensor failed, is the broken wire the problem then? or is it something you did.

normally you get a problem with the sensors when they have a drop out point, like a TP sensor. sorry to here of your problems.

hopefully the ion is better for you, i have an 07 ion 3 quad coupe, has been flawless so far other than a slight clunking in the steering and a mild wind noise at 70 + when it gets too annoying i'll take it to the saturn dealer, id fix it, but i cant cross warranty work with saturn, from a chevy dealer