Time To lobby the government

[Cdesign]

What is GM's cost per vehicle for Health Care? Too Much.

How much has the average vehicle's weight grown over the past 20 years? How does this effect fuel economy?

How many accidents are caused by driver error? How many accidents are caused by automobiles? Then what type of testing and certification do you need to become a driver? And what type of testing and certification do you need to sell a new automobile?


If GM had a representative that would lobby the government for help with realistic problems, that could drasticly affect GMs bottom line in a positive way. For example, single payer health care. This would drop the cost for GM's benefits for current employees and retirees. Also, how about working with the government to encourage funding of research into new materials and streamlining current materials such as exotic metals and composites?
This would drop fuel consumption and help to meet the 35mpg CAFE standards along with the current rate of improvement, while not entirely taking away our muscle and sports cars.

Also, more and more safety standards are put in place, while making the car safer and safer, even taking into account the rising factor of driver error. However this also makes the cars much heavier as well. I think much more attention needs to be given to the real cause of 99.999% of all accidents, and that is the driver. I think GM should address this with either the government, or by offering a very extensive driving class through the dealership network. This will help people drive better, lower their insurance rate, and show people that GM cares. It does not need to be free, as it should be very extensive, but it should be free with a new vehicle purchase, whether that new car is an AVEO or a ZR-1.
Whether offered through a GM dealership or not, Driver education needs to improve.

Considering that other major auto makers that sell cars in the US would be keen to co-operate, the funds that would be required would be much less than what big tobacco spends to stay legal. Also, I am sure Unions and Suppliers would jump in as well, the cost shared overall would well fund the cause, and get the message heard.

If the new camaro weighed about 2500 lbs using a composite/ foam-aluminum unibody that was stronger than a steel frame, even with the old 2000 ZO6's LS6, it would get better than 35 mpg and have 405 hp.


I don't think 35 mpg needs to be the death of Muscle cars and sports cars. Instead of turning their back on the big US automakers, the government should do something to come to a compromise that will be good for all involved. Maybe they just need someone to get that message through to them loud and clear. Of course, I'd love to be that person to run that communication.

Well, my Grandfather worked for General Motors Electromotive Division for about 45 years. My Father worked for General Motors from the age of 19 until he passed at 48.
Two of my uncles worked for GM, as well as an Aunt.
I would hate to see GM just falter and get pushed around by the government anymore. The government has given Health insurance and health care providers enough to make it very difficult for GM to keep providing good benefits. What's good for GM, is good for the US.

Thanks.

[ChevroletTough]

Originally Posted by Cdesign

I don't think 35 mpg needs to be the death of Muscle cars and sports cars.

THANK YOU!!!!! This is not acceptable. Ever since i was young i've had a dream to have a muscle car. If they take that from me, i'll be forever devistated....

Do not feel alone friend....

[member12]

I think that if the government wants to put such a big mandate on GM with CAFE, then it's their responsibility to help fund research and development.

In other words, I am totally against this regulation. Being a fiscal conservative, I am at odds with this because:
1. I understand the country needs to reduce energy consumption, esp in the form of oil.
2. I don't like government regulation
3. I love my big, gas-powered Silverado and I know millions of Americans love their guzzlers, so there isn't much short of an economy-crippling embargo that would get people like me and you out of your guzzlers.
4. The IIHS has done more than NHTSA for safety in automobiles. Given the expense gone into testing these cars, we need to have a set standard for each to follow and measure to...now the current testing practices are unfair to heavier cars, but its' the best test in the world.

So I guess we kind of need the CAFE, but I think GM and Ford should have been making better fuel efficient cars years ago to at least give consumers a choice.
If we do nothing, the American auto industry will fold. If we do to much, we lose all the cars and trucks we love.

I think now that GM's responsibility is to prove to America that a fuel efficient car doesn't have to be an econobox. It is possible to build a love-worthy car that gets 35mpg (or better to offset the Camaro, Silverado, Blazer, Tahoe, and Hummer products...which should be diesel.
The Europeans do it every day.

I think that the Government's responsibility is to create a loophole for trucks, SUVs, and muscle cars....allowing them to reach, say 27mpg if GM builds X number of completely alternative fuel vehicles or full electric commuter cars. Another thing the government can help with is bost city fuel economy by widening our streets and freeways to make an American city mileage be closer to the European city cycle with fewer stop lights and interconnecting streets. The EPA can test cars at a less difficult cycle for city mileage and help boost city MPG by 1 or 2 points at no cost to GM. I'd love it if we can develop safe (police patroled) walkable neighborhoods that didn't require use of a car.

[Cdesign]

Well, I think the key is to help GM research new ways to improve mileage either through lightening vehicles, new technology or alternative fuels, or all of the above.

Also, other costs such as insurance really put restrictions of what GM can spend their money on.

[tholland]

I would say that most other countries do a lot to help out their own auto industries... why is North America so down on ours? Investment in technology can lead an industry more effectively than legislation IMO. Legislation limits our choices.

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by tholland

I would say that most other countries do a lot to help out their own auto industries... why is North America so down on ours? Investment in technology can lead an industry more effectively than legislation IMO. Legislation limits our choices.

I agree, but without legislation (such as CAFE ratings) there would be no need to invest into research to reach higher mileage.

The Auto industry can use a drop in the bucket compared to what they spend on marketing and with that I could gain a lot of support in Washington.

[HoosierRon]

Single payor health care? Does that mean the federal government would pay for the health care of Toyota employees in Indiana, Kentucky and Texas?

And would my doctor's office would look like the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, the Medicaid clinic or a NYC public high school?

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Single payor health care? Does that mean the federal government would pay for the health care of Toyota employees in Indiana, Kentucky and Texas?

And would my doctor's office would look like the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, the Medicaid clinic or a NYC public high school?

No and No. Edit; yes and no.

Single payer would mean that any american is covered. Just because a guy works for Toyota should he be excluded?

Single payer would mean no more deductables. That means no calls from bill collectors saying you owe the hospital 3,000 dollars after you paid you're co-pay and your insurance, and your insurance paid 18,000.

It would also mean more money to the doctor. Today about 25-35% off all money paid for health care goes to insurance companies.

Also, it would not mean your hospital or doctors office would be staterun, it would simply mean that the money you pay would be much less than you currently pay for insurance, and it would go straight to the hospital or doctor from the government controlled Single Payer Plan.

Finally I would add that all hospitals and Doctors should be real Non-for-profit organizations. Not like the Hospital down the street from me, where my family owes over 15,000 after insurance and they made over 132 million in profits in 2007. Non-for-profit and 132 million in profits don't add up right if you ask me.

I think it's simply time for the doctors and nurses to start making the money, not the insurance companies and executives.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by ChevroletTough

THANK YOU!!!!! This is not acceptable. Ever since i was young i've had a dream to have a muscle car. If they take that from me, i'll be forever devistated....

Do not feel alone friend....

You can still get one. For whatever reason, the SB V8s are efficient. Put DI on a 4.8L and you have a very competitive engine. Add a mild turbo to a 4.6L and you have a LS3 with a 30% mileage improvement - that does even better on E85.

If all you are looking for is a very fast, 2+2 coupe - you will be able to get that. If you demand normally aspirated, large displacement, OHV, etc - you may (will) be out of luck in the future.

If you don't worry about how the power is made, and judge an engine by the torque curve, hp and mileage - you'll have a very enjoyable purchase.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Cdesign

No and No. Edit; yes and no.

Single payer would mean that any american is covered. Just because a guy works for Toyota should he be excluded?

Single payer would mean no more deductables. That means no calls from bill collectors saying you owe the hospital 3,000 dollars after you paid you're co-pay and your insurance, and your insurance paid 18,000.

It would also mean more money to the doctor. Today about 25-35% off all money paid for health care goes to insurance companies.

Also, it would not mean your hospital or doctors office would be staterun, it would simply mean that the money you pay would be much less than you currently pay for insurance, and it would go straight to the hospital or doctor from the government controlled Single Payer Plan.

Finally I would add that all hospitals and Doctors should be real Non-for-profit organizations. Not like the Hospital down the street from me, where my family owes over 15,000 after insurance and they made over 132 million in profits in 2007. Non-for-profit and 132 million in profits don't add up right if you ask me.

I think it's simply time for the doctors and nurses to start making the money, not the insurance companies and executives.

So in other words, you want the government to tax me so that it can pay your bills.

Communism does not work.

[NfamousZ24]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

So in other words, you want the government to tax me so that it can pay your bills.

Communism does not work.

Yeah I like my Health Care I don't want someone like Billary to ruin it!

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

So in other words, you want the government to tax me so that it can pay your bills.

Communism does not work.

Are you serious?


WTF do you think Communism is? Do you actually know what communism is? A few people running the whole damn show, getting rich and the rest pay for it. WTF do you think is happening here in the US??

Sorry but if you call me a commuinist then you're an idiot following the dumb BS the radio talk shows tell you to say.

Yes, Communism does not work. Eventually the poor people get tired of being taken advantage of and overthrow the government and the wealthy, by any means possible. Read that very carefully.


Let's break it down into simple terms. Insurance CEOs make millions of dollars off people trying to cover themselves against sickness or injury. Hospital CEO's make millions of dollars off people getting sick or injured. Single payer takes 1/2 the money and pays the doctor, the nurses and the people who provide the care. Period. Overpayments pay for research and development and new hosptials or expansions. Doctors are not state employees, but asured payment by the state. They make no less, and probably more.


The end result, you and I pay less for quality health care and never get turned down for care that we need. No more unpaid medical bills so the doctors always get paid. Out of pocket costs for insurance co-pays and all other asociated costs VANISH, while taxes increase a lot less than what most people pay a month for insurance.


Stop being a damn cattle in the herd. Look at the big picture. If you think this is the land of the rich and screw the poor, then when the poor get fed up with people like you and take up arms, you will finally understand it has gone too far. When the poor get tired of their voices falling on deaf ears and seeing the politicians fall time and again for rich lobbyists, you are going to see people really start to snap. What you are saying is propaganda fed to you by your right wing mentors. Good job little sheep.

Go read the book "The buying of the president 2004" and then talk to me.

"I don't want to pay any more in taxes"...... Neither do I, and when the government finally gets it's act together when people start saying "enough" and does not allow any more BS like all this spending on pet projects and bull crap, and they stop allowing huge tax breaks for their friends, then we will not have to pay as much in taxes. Bush is pushing for 37 billion in tax breaks for companies. Meaning, you will pay more in taxes because corporations are not. Sound good to you? Capitalism at it's finest, so it must be great. You must LOVE Bush.

The way it's going, if kept on, the rich would pay less and less in taxes, the poor would pay more and more, and corporations would not pay taxes. Does that sound good to you? That sounds like communism to me. But that is precisely the situation we are in.

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by NfamousZ24

Yeah I like my Health Care I don't want someone like Billary to ruin it!

So it's working for you great, it does not work so well for a lot of other americans,

but as long as it's good for you right?

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by Cdesign

Are you serious?


WTF do you think Communism is? Do you actually know what communism is? A few people running the whole damn show, getting rich and the rest pay for it. WTF do you think is happening here in the US??

Sorry but if you call me a commuinist then you're an idiot following the dumb BS the radio talk shows tell you to say.

Yes, Communism does not work. Eventually the poor people get tired of being taken advantage of and overthrow the government and the wealthy, by any means possible. Read that very carefully.


Let's break it down into simple terms. Insurance CEOs make millions of dollars off people trying to cover themselves against sickness or injury. Hospital CEO's make millions of dollars off people getting sick or injured. Single payer takes 1/2 the money and pays the doctor, the nurses and the people who provide the care. Period. Overpayments pay for research and development and new hosptials or expansions. Doctors are not state employees, but asured payment by the state. They make no less, and probably more.


The end result, you and I pay less for quality health care and never get turned down for care that we need. No more unpaid medical bills so the doctors always get paid. Out of pocket costs for insurance co-pays and all other asociated costs VANISH, while taxes increase a lot less than what most people pay a month for insurance.


Stop being a damn cattle in the herd. Look at the big picture. If you think this is the land of the rich and screw the poor, then when the poor get fed up with people like you and take up arms, you will finally understand it has gone too far. When the poor get tired of their voices falling on deaf ears and seeing the politicians fall time and again for rich lobbyists, you are going to see people really start to snap. What you are saying is propaganda fed to you by your right wing mentors. Good job little sheep.

Go read the book "The buying of the president 2004" and then talk to me.

"I don't want to pay any more in taxes"...... Neither do I, and when the government finally gets it's act together when people start saying "enough" and does not allow any more BS like all this spending on pet projects and bull crap, and they stop allowing huge tax breaks for their friends, then we will not have to pay as much in taxes. Bush is pushing for 37 billion in tax breaks for companies. Meaning, you will pay more in taxes because corporations are not. Sound good to you? Capitalism at it's finest, so it must be great. You must LOVE Bush.

The way it's going, if kept on, the rich would pay less and less in taxes, the poor would pay more and more, and corporations would not pay taxes. Does that sound good to you? That sounds like communism to me. But that is precisely the situation we are in.

If you think you have fairly characterized me, I suggest you click on my signature.

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

If you think you have fairly characterized me, I suggest you click on my signature.

I was going off what you said in your earlier post.

I don't know you. I can only go off what you say here. What you said above was right along with the right wing textbook reply.

However what is the reply to;
"Then you will have more money in your pocket"
"Then doctors will have all their invoices paid"
"Then the doctors make the money, not CEOs"

Where is the down side? Oh, your taxes go up while your medical costs vanish.
Again, where is the down side?