Take a leaf out of Toyota's book...

[Col Klink]

GM should learn from Toyota - their formula seems to be (for some of their models (here it is Corolla) in the US I believe it is Camry), just build a semi-reliable/efficient model get a good safety rating and it will sell - no matter how boring/awful it looks!!

Is it practical to develop a chassis/driveline & safety cell to put into production - do a couple of different "shells" for show and just slam the more popular through into production???? If it can be done then why not, just do it??!!

[asim]

I'm sorry dude, but although this strategy works for Toyota, it will NOT work out for GM. This is simply because they are two different companies. When GM tried to copy the Japanese in the midsize Lumina, they didn't do nearly as well because they were copying something they are not -- the vehicles didn't play off the "American originality". GM just can't build a boring car and expect it to sell well.

Toyota has a polished reputation in the United States to be reliable, efficient, and safe. GM has pretty much the opposite reputation of Toyota's. This means that GM can't be using the same strategy, because people don't believe that GM vehicles are anything of reliable, efficient, and safe. GM has to do something bold and brash to gain sales and possibly take on the market (this is what Nissan did with their Altima in 2002).

[IROCNROL1]

Originally Posted by asim

I'm sorry dude, but although this strategy works for Toyota, it will NOT work out for GM. This is simply because they are two different companies. When GM tried to copy the Japanese in the midsize Lumina, they didn't do nearly as well because they were copying something they are not -- the vehicles didn't play off the "American originality". GM just can't build a boring car and expect it to sell well.

Toyota has a polished reputation in the United States to be reliable, efficient, and safe. GM has pretty much the opposite reputation of Toyota's. This means that GM can't be using the same strategy, because people don't believe that GM vehicles are anything of reliable, efficient, and safe. GM has to do something bold and brash to gain sales and possibly take on the market (this is what Nissan did with their Altima in 2002).

Well put, and 100% correct.

[F14CRAZY]

Originally Posted by IROCNROL1

Well put, and 100% correct.

I agree as well. GM's new coming strategy of quality and styling will help sales a lot. Boring vehicles are not going to help now. If GM ever gets in the position Toyota is, I hope they don't make boring vehicles that sell well...I'd rather see stylish vehicles that sell well

[SCarFan]

No, no, no! If GM copied Toyota they would not have cool cars like the Impala SS, which is miles better than any current Toyota sedan for the price (just one example)! GM seems to be on the right track overall, it will just (unfortunately) take some time for people to notice and quit giving automatic preference to Honda and Toyota.

F14CRAZY- Interesting to see another Forester owner here...

[Xenon]

The best thing for GM to do is make something diffrent that will attract people to their offerings. Nissan did it by making a nicley styled car that also a preformer that blew away all others in the segment in terms of power. They even advertised based on that little theme, Cure for the Common car is what I think it was. But what works for one company isn't necessiarly going to work for another.

[Bravada]

Toyota's strategy was building a reputation for like 50 years now. GM's "strategy" was the opposite. It is too late for GM to do a Toyota now, they do have to attack from another flank - making good cars is one thing, but they have to make them more compelling than Toyota's to make people switch, and styling is surely the key here.

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

Originally Posted by Col Klink

, just build a semi-reliable/efficient model get a good safety rating and it will sell - no matter how boring/awful it looks!!

That's what GM is doing now. The reliability is equal, or superior to Toyota (Buick and Cadillac), and the cars are still not selling. The problem is, the reliability on Toyota and Honda is not going down. So consumers have no "reason" to purchase a GM product. As long as consumers are happy with their Toyota and Honda, Detroit will struggle. It's called the "perception gap". That perception has not caught up with reality.

One opportunity, I believe, is in the style and design department. If they can offer products with superior style and design then consumers are forced to take a serious look at GM. Consumers want something different.

I belileve GM needs to put the "ball in the consumers court", and produce procucts that are so exeedingly well styled, and executed, that the consumer is forced to act.

My choice is on incorporating elements of heritage products. Not retro, but selecting design elements from that rich heritage.

[jon21]

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

That's what GM is doing now. The reliability is equal, or superior to Toyota (Buick and Cadillac), and the cars are still not selling. The problem is, the reliability on Toyota and Honda is not going down. So consumers have no "reason" to purchase a GM product. As long as consumers are happy with their Toyota and Honda, Detroit will struggle. It's called the "perception gap". That perception has not caught up with reality.

One opportunity, I believe, is in the style and design department. If they can offer products with superior style and design then consumers are forced to take a serious look at GM. Consumers want something different.

I belileve GM needs to put the "ball in the consumers court", and produce procucts that are so exeedingly well styled, and executed, that the consumer is forced to act.

My choice is on incorporating elements of heritage products. Not retro, but selecting design elements from that rich heritage.

The Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky roadsters and Aura are a good start.
The new Malibu and new Camaro that are coming soon will help too.

[NationsKappatol]

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

That's what GM is doing now. The reliability is equal, or superior to Toyota (Buick and Cadillac), and the cars are still not selling. The problem is, the reliability on Toyota and Honda is not going down. So consumers have no "reason" to purchase a GM product. As long as consumers are happy with their Toyota and Honda, Detroit will struggle. It's called the "perception gap". That perception has not caught up with reality.

One opportunity, I believe, is in the style and design department. If they can offer products with superior style and design then consumers are forced to take a serious look at GM. Consumers want something different.

I belileve GM needs to put the "ball in the consumers court", and produce procucts that are so exeedingly well styled, and executed, that the consumer is forced to act.

My choice is on incorporating elements of heritage products. Not retro, but selecting design elements from that rich heritage.

Well said. Robert Cumberford says a very similar thing in his, I think, accurate design analysis of the '08 Malibu in this month's edition of Automobile Magazine. Check it out if you get a chance... I was glad to see that a major auto writer was cheering for GM and recognized in a major publication that GM quality is on par or better than its competitors.

[Ming]

Originally Posted by Col Klink

GM should learn from Toyota - their formula seems to be (for some of their models (here it is Corolla) in the US I believe it is Camry), just build a semi-reliable/efficient model get a good safety rating and it will sell - no matter how boring/awful it looks!!

Sounds like Buick. Overall very good in most of the quality surveys. Difference is, the Buick mainstream model will probably sport an engine that dates back to the late 1970's and is "bulletproof" (for the first 100,000 miles at least, minus the intake manifold issues) but due to its age and poor HP/liter perfomance compared to the new engines from Toyohonda, gets regularly slammed by the autmotive media for being outdated.

There is still a problem with long-term reliability that GM needs to overcome whether its perception or reality.

[tom3]

I think GM did just this when they came out with the Malibu ten years ago. Didn't even have a Chevy or GM badge on it, just a swoopy emblem that looked somewhat like a Toyota emblem. Was a pretty good car by GM standards but didn't measure up to the Accord/Camry as time went by. Toyota's and Honda's perception of quality will be a tough nut to crack, maybe Hyundai is getting there first?

[smokyn454]

Originally Posted by jon21

The Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky roadsters and Aura are a good start.
The new Malibu and new Camaro that are coming soon will help too.

Those are great cars, and are helping GM get a foothold and a decent base to work off of. Don't forget all the Saturns and the G8 that is coming as well.

What pisses me off about GM is that they leave cars like the Trailblazer, Cobalt/G5, Colorado/Canyon, Aveo ( although it has been updated, it still has a horrible motor ), Monte Carlo, G6, pretty much the whole Buick lineup, among a whole list of others, to rot on dealership lots. Improve your product! Don't wait 6-8 years without doing anything and then release and MCE with a couple improvements. Why can't they continually update their cars? From model year to model year, keep adding improvements.

A freind of mine has a 2004 Colorado crew cab. Guess what? It is the same exact truck you can buy today. Nothing has changed in 4 model years, nothing.

[HoeyHimself]

Take a leaf out of Toyota's book....
....and BURN the rest!

But on topic, the only promlem I see is that even if they built a car a you mentioned...they would still be viewed as American and unreliable. The name and origin of Toyota is half the selling point. Asian Import = Safe and Fuel Efficient.

[GMCdriver]

Originally Posted by smokyn454

A freind of mine has a 2004 Colorado crew cab. Guess what? It is the same exact truck you can buy today. Nothing has changed in 4 model years, nothing.

You wrote this like you know what you are talking about but you don't and the unfortunate thing is that there are people here who can't tell the difference, people who don't know about trucks but came here to learn are being mis-lead by this kind of uninformed garbage.

I was going to type a list off all the things that have changed year by year but I thought I would give you a chance to do a bit of research and correct your post yourself instead.