New V6 needed

[member12]

Originally Posted by Greenday91490

I agree, but the should be different displacement levels, if you are going to do the 3.6L V6 across the board, give the lower end cars 230 horses, and the higher end cars 300 horses with DI. I think they should make a 2.7L V6, and a 3.6 based on the newest high feature. Update the ecotecs, and make a diesel V6 option.

Now that I think about it, maybe 3 versions of the V6 engine family would be best from a marketing standpoint like Nissan does with the VQ. I don't know if the 3.6L has the flexibility to go after that engine, which is used from everyday sedans to sporst cars to pickup trucks and SUVs. GM would have to be ultra flexible to work with all the different emission standards worldwide and some versions will have to accomidate more cooling capacity and others forced induction and race ready tuning.

Here's my thoughs on the only V6 engine line that GM needs...I'll call it the Member12 line (combined with the mouse motors, duramax diesels of all sizes, and the ecotecs and whatever GM calls it's hybrid powertrains..I think it's a winner and it's fairly simple).

1 -3.5 L DOHC DI engine with all the cool gadgets for the mid line cars and SUVs with different tuning per application. 270hp-310hp. For all the mainstream front and RWD sedans around the world that currently use the 3.6L engine. The focus is on fuel economy and performance to match the Honda V6 engine line in power, reliability, refinement and efficiency. By mass producing these things (the way that GM did in the past with the 3.8L engine) GM can make a great base engine for sedans like the Impala or Lucerne and cut cost by sharing the motor with other markets worldwide and expanding production. This will also pick up where the supercharged 4 cylinder motors leave off as far as power output.

2 -3.7L DOHC DI engine with all the possible gadgets known to mankind for bragging rights and for those conversation pieces that the owner bought the car for. This engine is only for Cadillac and high performance Chevrolet sports cars. One version to be a fire breathing twin turbo. 320hp-420hp on premium fuel. This engine will replace the Northstar and the current Cadillac V6.
I still think the Japanese are better people to model your V6 engines after than the Germans, so GM needs to benchmark the Infiniti and Acrua models here and beat them at their own game.

3 -4.0L DOHC DI engine tuned specifically for mid and full sized trucks and SUVs with a heavy torque bias and specially attention for cooling capacity, durability, and fuel economy. 280hp/290lb-ft...hopefully without VVT. This will replace the 4.8L V8 and the Atlas I-5. If GM can put out a small I-4 diesel for trucks then I can see this verison not even being needed as the diesel will attract the "real" truck users and the soccer moms can have a truck powered by the 3.5L DOHC engine (number 1).

If it can't be powered by those engines, then either the ecotec class of 4 cylinders and one of several small block V8s (for full sized trucks and higher end versions for the Vette and V series Cadillacs) or a diesel. I think the 2.0L Turbocharged 4 cylinder is going to turn any need of a small V6 away. If that little sucker can get 250hp and 28 mpg in a mid sized car (it does 260 and 30 in the Cobalt) AND still be covered by the 5 year 100,000 mile warranty, then GM doesn't need to bother with a 3.0L sized engine.

With the new fuel economy standards, the days of having 10 different versions of the small block are going to be ending, instead we will have one family of V6 engines (3 or 4 different versions), one family of V8 engines for trucks, about 10 variations of ecotec 4 cylinders, and one performance engine line.....and that's for the American market as well as the rest of the world.

I don't know what the other world markets demand as far as mid sized truck engines (I guess the Aussies would be the driver in this market), but the 2.9L I-4 in the Colorado is a pretty solid piece. If there is any Atlas engine that should remain (the 4.2L is great, but it doesn't fit in anything), it's probably the 4 cylinder. It's relatively cheap, durable, and competative with the Japanese on output and efficiency. I don't know if American demand is enough to keep this going, so the best move would be to coordinate the 4 cylinder truck/SUV motor with the other small truck markets around the world and let them lead the design for this.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by ogg vorbis

i don't know how the v6 would vibrate in v4 mode. shutting down one bank works well enough, ~120 hp peak 1.94 L I3 (based on 3900). so anything over 120 hp is gravy. a 300 hp 3900 could probably operate in 3 cyl mode all day. it may allow a valet mode.

fwiw, i don't know if the 4.8 will survive at all...thus the 3.6 would be in danger of drawing from a smaller pool of parts (although it would be fitted to more cars than the 4.8 is in trucks). the 4l is a more likely candidate.

i included the LS I4 as a base engine because of the aftermarket potential and sprint/midget/hobby car potential. even at 450 hp it's 2 hp/lb. 'high tech' bmw turbo 3l i6 is 0.85 lb/hp. a cast iron block crate engine (~200 hp) will go for less than $2000 and still weigh 260 lb (the all aluminum 155 hp 2.2 dohc ecotec is $2200).

Did you see this on an ALL NEW 2.7L I-4 from the 6.2L LS V8?

OVER 350 HP LIGHT WIEGHT, AFFORDABLE, and a LOW CENTER OF GRAVITY NOW THAT IS A GREAT COMBINATION - MAKES YOU WONDER ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF A LS V6 IF THEY CAN GET THAT MUCH OUT OF AN I-4 VERSION, THINK THE 3.6L DOHC HF CAN GO AWAY ENTIRELY.

Chevrolet Unveils New Midget Racing Engine
Written by: SPEED Staff SPEEDtv.com 05/07/2008 - 12:45 PM Indianapolis, Ind.

The Chevy Midget racing engine's all-new design features an exhaust-side camshaft that allows for optimal airflow and repositioning of spark plugs and fuel injector nozzles.

Chevrolet's all-new Midget racing engine was unveiled today at Indianapolis Motor Speedway by GM representatives and United States Auto Club (USAC) team owner Tony Stewart. Designed by GM Racing specifically for the USAC National Midget Car Series, the new purpose-built, four-cylinder Chevrolet racing engine will initially power Tony Stewart Racing (TSR) drivers Tracy Hines and Levi Jones in upcoming events. The new Chevy Midget engine will be available to all USAC competitors through independent engine builders.

One year ago, Chevrolet announced its sponsorship of Tony Stewart Racing in open-wheel competition," said Chevrolet general manager Ed Peper. "Now Chevrolet has taken the next step by creating an all-new racing engine for this popular grassroots racing series. Chevrolet races to win, and America's brand is aiming for more victories in this uniquely American form of motorsports."

The new methanol-burning 166ci (2.7-liter) Chevy Midget racing engine produces more than 350 horsepower. The lightweight, inline four-cylinder engine employs an aluminum block and cylinder head with two valves per cylinder. Per USAC rules, the Chevy Midget engine is equipped with mechanical fuel injection and utilizes an electronic ignition system.

“The Chevy Midget racing engine is definitely going to be an asset to Tony Stewart Racing," said team owner Tony Stewart. "Having the Chevrolet bowtie on the engine and not just on the side of the car as a sponsor is indicative of how much technical support the brand has given our program. In the past, we’ve competed with engines that were based on Chevy parts but weren't necessarily a Chevrolet engine. The Chevy Racing engineering and marketing staffs have really embraced the TSR racing programs, and the debut of this new engine is the start of another exciting new chapter in our relationship.”


MORE HERE http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...racing-engine/

[Col Klink]

Yeah V6 is need a TT Diesel & a small TT pertol. Oh well dreams a free.

[ogg vorbis]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Did you see this on an ALL NEW 2.7L I-4 from the 6.2L LS V8?

OVER 350 HP LIGHT WIEGHT, AFFORDABLE, and a LOW CENTER OF GRAVITY NOW THAT IS A GREAT COMBINATION - MAKES YOU WONDER ABOUT THE POTENTIAL OF A LS V6 IF THEY CAN GET THAT MUCH OUT OF AN I-4 VERSION, THINK THE 3.6L DOHC HF CAN GO AWAY ENTIRELY.

i posted my concept dec 12/07...i chose to believe i made a difference following this timeline, a production LS v6 should come out next year. lol

a nastruck spec 4.4L v6 will make 640 hp (vs 820). a midget spec 4.0L v6 will make 550+ hp. i believe the midgets are making over 370 hp...maybe 400.

i just realized that a v6 with 4.155" x 3" is 3999 cc...which lets it have unlimited compression in grand am racing. let's just say the gm v6 would be more than competitive.

i've been considering a 60° v6 a lot lately. the block is super compact and light weight - it's 1.5" taller than a 90° block, but 3" narrower. the cam has to be so high that the lifters are flush with the deck surface! pushrods are just a few inches long - zero deflection. the hv v6 lifter location would allow wide, straight ports aimed towards the cylinder center - stage II style - using shaft mounted rockers. a 4" bore is readily achievable, and perhaps larger, with on-center bores.

because the LS7 was designed as a restrictor motor, the intake valve is way too big, and the exhaust valve is too small for a street motor. even with 2.125" intake it'd flow similarly to the LS7 port - it's taller, straighter, less convoluted, and less shrouded. exhaust would be 1.59" - 75% exhaust/intake. the intake runners can be at 30°, meaning the intake manifold will be nearly vertical.

i've modeled a block in solidworks. does anyone know the bank offset? with that info i can finish the block, model a rough crank, and create an animation i realized that a lot of material can be whittled away without losing strength. i'm missing a couple of bulkheads, and flanges, but it only weighs 40 lb so far!