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GM should bring back PONTIAC

130K views 1K replies 115 participants last post by  Uzzy 
#1 ·
Bring back Pontiac and keep it a niche car company. Pontiac has its following. It was a great looking car also.

for example:

GTO
G6 coupe
G6 hardtop conv.
Solstice, 2 seater.
 
#45 ·
One more thing,

All of the Pontiac haters who criticize the loyalists do so under a misconception. You think we liked the tacked on plastic era, or the latest rebadge everything and call it a Pontiac era.

We didn't.

We waited patiently for the next generation to come and reward our patience and loyalty with an exciting true Pontiac. In much the same way as I survived the vehicles of the 80's I was hoping to survive the 90's and 00's as well. The 00's gave me hope as the plastic went away, the designs cleaned up, but then they killed the Firebird, and then the interiors went to cheap crap (like all of GM, Chrysler, and Ford interiors), and the details were forgotten (like having some depth in your grills so they don't look like cheap tacked on plastic decoration), and the heritage names were thrown away, and GM gave Pontiac such craptastic cars as the G4 and G3! I was hoping that 2010 would bring new excitement and instead I got discontinuation.

Just like the Impala lovers who wait patiently hoping for a revolution and restoration of the marquee to a deserving vehicle, we waited patiently and were rewarded with nothing.

Yes, we feel jilted and betrayed. Yes, we answer by taking our dollars elsewhere. Yes, we dream of a new Pontiac where performance reigns and entry level vehicles are absent.

and Yes, we know we are dreaming and even sometimes whining, and yet we continue as that is our choice and our passion was strong enough to cause such extended grief!
 
#113 ·
One more thing,

All of the Pontiac haters who criticize the loyalists do so under a misconception. You think we liked the tacked on plastic era, or the latest rebadge everything and call it a Pontiac era.

We didn't.
I certainly dont believe that, but the public sees Pontiac as GM's Mitsubishi -- chintzy stuff for people who aren't serious about cars.
 
#46 ·
There was plenty of loyalty, enough in fact that GM is dismayed that 50% of Pontiac buyers are switching to other corporations.

Pontiac outsold Buick 2:1, and even with all of the marketing and new models Buick hasn't made up the volume difference. That's a lot of volume to just dump.

What nobody acknowledges is that this isn't the first time GM has tried to reinvent Buick, and every time, eventually, Buick went back to being the retiree's special and their average buyer's age went up culminating in a 73 year old average age in 2007.

Pontiac may be dead, and Buick may someday replace it in GM's lineup, but like myself many Pontiac loyalists will not buy a Buick, or a common man's Chevy (other than trucks), so I am forced to look at Chrysler or Ford or even violate my no foreign brands rule and look at Nissan which is the best fit IMO.

PS-If they had given Pontiac the vehicles and marketing that they gave Buick, Pontiac would be selling even more cars right now!! LaCrosse could have been the new Bonneville, G8 should have been called the Catalina, new Regal would have been the new Grand Prix, leave the Solstice alone for 10 years so you could eventually recoup your investment, and you have a full lineup. No small cars unless they were credible Pocket Rockets. No minivans or SUVs. Everything in the lineup would have to out-handle and out-accelerate the majority of the competition.
Excellent points. I may disagree with your choice of names, but names they should have had.

One more thing,

All of the Pontiac haters who criticize the loyalists do so under a misconception. You think we liked the tacked on plastic era, or the latest rebadge everything and call it a Pontiac era.

We didn't.
QUOTED FOR TRUTH!!!

Yes, we feel jilted and betrayed. Yes, we answer by taking our dollars elsewhere. Yes, we dream of a new Pontiac where performance reigns and entry level vehicles are absent.

and Yes, we know we are dreaming and even sometimes whining, and yet we continue as that is our choice and our passion was strong enough to cause such extended grief!
Took the thoughts and words right out of my head and mouth.

I won't buy a Chevy version of the Zeta unless it is a Ute. Wouldn't buy a Buick version of Zeta either as a sedan. Brand does mean something to us. Non-Pontiac loyalists don't get it and frankly by judging from their posts here, NEVER will unfortunately. Why what we are trying to say is so hard for them to understand is beyond me.
 
#48 ·
I hope you aren't tossing me into this "Pontiac haters" file.
Not yet, but if you read your posts it sure points that direction though. Also remember this is a "Please bring Pontiac back" thread. Not a "Buick is better than Pontiac" thread. Please have some understanding for us. If you don't get it fine let us vent, we BOUGHT, DROVE AND LOVED PONTIACS and unless you have, please don't lecture us. Walk a mile in our shoes and then you can comment. See you out there on the road in my Pontiac. :)
 
#49 ·
So saying one brand made more sense than another points to me hating the latter brand? :confused:

I also don't have to "buy, drive, and love" Pontiacs to comment on this (and it's not lecturing).

I refuse to walk a mile in the shoes of someone who will be loyal to a badge in this manner, sorry.

Also, I never said Buick is better than Pontiac, unless you mean in sales on an international level.

I think these "Pontiac lovers" need to add a bit more objectivity to this matter rather than the emotional pleas. Cars are also a business.
 
#50 ·
I think these "Pontiac lovers" need to add a bit more objectivity to this matter
Take a bit of your own medicine. Non fans should show a bit more empathy. It works both ways. Life ain't a one way street.
 
#55 ·
Maybe instead of dumping a high volume seller that everyone wanted, we should have dumped the low volume seller Cadilac that very few are wanting?
Food for thought isn't it? With Buick going upmarket and looking to go Luxury it may be stepping on Cadillac's toes with a little overlap. Time will tell with this one.

Big deal, you can do that on a Schwinn.
CLASSIC!!! :D
 
#59 ·
This is annoying, gotta step in now. I own an import, hell I own a freaking Camry. But guess what my next car is going to be............2005-6 Pontiac GTO 6MT. A twin kidney grill does not = "personality". I want a Pontiac GTO because it's a cool car, to me. Passion to the brand is dead, because Pontiac is dead. And I don't mean GM killed Pontiac, but rather 2 of the best Pontiacs ever are actually Austrailian Holden cars. Just saying.

Oh, I have owned a 1966 LeMans, 1966 Bonneville, and a 1972 Bonneville, and loved them all. I'd sure love to get my hands on another 66 Bonneville, or even a cool Catalina like funkypunnk's. But I second the notion that's childish to point to another poster's car ownership status just because there opinion isn't the same as yours.
 
#74 · (Edited)
In the immortal words of Artie Johnson, this thread is "veeeery interesting"...

A quote from this one, a snipit from that one...pretty soon you can have a very compelling case, BOTH sides of the fence.

Some sad history, from Pontiac, on the same platform TWO different times:

MY 1982, Pontiac is pleased as punch to intro the all-new "drive Accord back to J-A-pan" J2000...tada! Got great fuel economy, but many of the purported "horses" were left in the stable, what with its 2-something final gear ratio and flooding problems if you put your foot with a foot of the accelerator on a cold morning. I sat through an excrutiating ass-whooping from the "suits" one day in January/'82 who told us we ordered them wrong (too many automatics, not enough overpriced handling packages, yadayada), until I stood up and told 'em I, for one, would not sell the car PERIOD until they fixed the cold-start/flooding/cough-n-sput problem and put some gear in the car so it would pull itself down the road!............[Silence ensued...]. After the meeting, I was told to shut my mouth, or else... Within weeks, a TSB was issued to install new platinum-tipped plugs (first I heard of them), reflash the 'puter and, from now on, 3-something gears would be standard equipment... Guess what? The missing horses were found, the car started and ran as it should, and sales picked up markedly. Pontiac's follow-up?

MY 1983, "we'll call it the 2000"...

MY 1984, "we'll call it the 2000 Sunbird"...

MY 1985, "we'll call it the Sunbird"...

So much for BRAND IDENTITY...

Flash forward to...

MY 2005, Pontiac intro's a new Canadian-only version of the "all-new" Cobalt, called the Pursuit...styled differently, a lil more content at virtually the same price. Sales, as for the Sunfire previously, are close-to-equal Cobalt, nationally, with much less Fleet...

MY 2006 (Spring), "we're not happy having the entry-level Pontiac be the Vibe at its price-point, sooooo we're going to intro this car in the U.S., to be called the G5, so we're NOW going to call the Canadian version the Pursuit G5"...(where has this happened before?)

MY 2007...yup, name-change to...G5...

My points?

1) Half-a$$ed, confusing efforts in the Compact Class have led to dismal North American results for GM; and...

2) No wonder Pontiac ended where it did. Vibe is now a four-letter word, and Pontiac is no longer...

Oldsmobile, when its cancellation was anounced, posted almost 300,000 units in MY 2000; Pontiac posted almost 300,000 in '08; Buick = 130-odd in MY '08.

Conclusion?

GM's future survival depends on its "import" status, elsewhere. China specifically. So the "circle of life" is being completed. What GM has learned, or has fallen into, is that Toyota and Honda were absolutely RIGHT! "Export" your Brand elsewhere, and you can/may survive!

And where would GM be if, for whatever reason, BUICK wasn't considered an "intender" Brand in CHINA?!
 
#77 ·
I'd say Pontiac had no worse reliability or resale then any other GM product. Seeing how many divisions shared the same platform they should all be pretty equal.

Pontiac did get some exclusives--just not enough.

exapmles

2.0 Turbo GAs and Sunbirds
3.1 Turbo GP
AWD Pontiac 6000
89 TTA 3.8 Turbo
4.6L Northstar GXP
new GTO
G8
Solstice

But it did have way too many models and years that were not. I wonder what they were thinking with the G5 debacle. Give Chevy the 2.0 SC (later Turbo) and leave the G5 GT with the 2.4L...
 
#80 ·
First of all, I could not agree less about the return of Pontiac being Ann unrealistic goal! My family has represented Pontiac for almost 80 years. It was one of our best selling and most profitable lines. Pontiac price point and style made it a great introductory vehicle for Gm. Just about every parking lot at a local high school in my area was loaded with g6`s. The loss of Pontiac was a huge blow to our GM dealership, not to mention we can't I repeat CAN NOT push Pontiac customers to Buick or GMc. The time is perfect to reintroduce Pontiac to the public, not that American car sales are up is time that GM should be cashing in on Pontiac sales. I feel based on our numbers that during a recession GM has hindered itself by keeping three higher priced brands and dumbing its more economy priced brand. As a proud Gm dealer I'd do just about anything to sell Pontiac again. I know I'm not the only one, all Buick GMC dealers have taken a hit from the loss of Pontiac.
 
#83 ·
I feel based on our numbers that during a recession GM has hindered itself by keeping three higher priced brands and dumbing its more economy priced brand. As a proud Gm dealer I'd do just about anything to sell Pontiac again. I know I'm not the only one, all Buick GMC dealers have taken a hit from the loss of Pontiac.
My former local BPG dealer remains a ghost town since the loss of Pontiac. I wonder how long they'll keep the lights on given their tiny monthly sales volume. The cheapest Buick on their lot starts over $27K and every Terrain is a higher priced V6 model. I think they only survived based on the loss of Pontiac franchise pay-out from GM.
 
#82 ·
Many Chevy owners fail to understand that many Pontiac owners don't want a vehicle from Chevy. I personally don't like the Chevy brand. Pontiac was for me the brand that was the outsider hence GM decided they had to go. When my local Pontiac group go to GM meets we tend to park our cars in the corner and hang out amongst ourselves instead of looking at the other cars. Pontiac is just different. When we go to Coffee and Cars, we park away from the GM vehicles. Plus, Pintiac was ostracized in the GM scene. Pontiac didn't get the respect it deserved. As a result, we don't mingle with other GM owners and we disassociate ourselves from the GM scene. I'm just speaking for the Pontiac owners in my area.
 
#88 ·
I agree and it's not just Chevy owners that fail to understand, it's GM as a whole. I currently own a Grand Prix GTP, Firebird Formula, and 6.0 GTO and I'm not interested in anything coming from Chevy, Buick, or Cadillac. My next purchase will most likely come from Dodge.
 
#87 ·
GM should bring back OAKLAND!

And Viking!

And Marquette!

And LaSalle!

And Oldsmobile!

And Saturn!

And Hummer!

Let's CRAM GM's product pipeline with as many different models as possible once again, so that they have NO money to do ANY of them right!!!

Because that worked SO WELL before!!!
 
#90 ·
thought-to-ponder: do you really want the same GM-idiots who "killed" Pontiac be the same GM-idiots attempting to "resurrect" it (think Frankenstein resurrection)?
 
#94 ·
An excellent point. From what I see they still wouldn't know what to do. Mark Ruess is the one guy I think who would have the vision to do it right, but when Coke-Can Dan is at the top, Ruess is limited.
 
#92 ·
I am loving the new Charger, and really love the SRT8, and it's cheaper than the CTS-V!!!!!
 
#93 ·
PONTIAC was the "James Dean" of the GM group; the "outside-the-box" product, not the usual "in-the-box" cookie-cutter vehicles.
 
#110 ·
Pontiac didn't wasted 2 decades, GM's decision makers did that.
Pontiac got what it was given due to GM's lack of vision for products per division & cluelessness as to brand identity.
GM got more concerned w/saving pennies, doing things on the cheap & making one vehicle w/the least amount of changes for each division(Example: the 80's J-body). Badge engineering at its worse!!

The Greatness that GM has made, shine on their own individual merits.
And I think as a whole, shines for GM. Granted GM has made various errors in judgement, but it is run my fallible mankind!



!!!
 
#98 ·
When I am finally willing to let my G8 go I will be driving a SRT8 Charger or Challenger or a CTS-V.
 
#101 ·
...Zora Arkus-Duntov was Mr. Corvette "American-sportscar" and John Z. DeLorean was Mr. GTO "muscle-car."--who else from GM do you recall?
 
#102 ·
Jim Wangers.
 
#104 ·
Make me.
 
#105 ·
We talk a lot about the G8, appropriately so, but one of the most underrated modern Pontiacs, to me, was the Bonneville GXP with the Northstar.

A big V8 car with clean looks. I didn't care for the gaping vents in the dash, the serviceability challenges (I know this as a Seville owner), or the poor rear visibility, but that stuff could maybe be forgiven.
 
#106 ·
My Bonneville SSEi was the most drivable car I have ever owned; just oozed fun. No Northstar for which I was thankful, but that turbo 3.8 hauled it around quite nicely.

The Charger is probably as quick as the Bonnie was, but not as driver oriented. It has more of a brute force approach, where the with the Bonneville, the guy next to you looked over, and...you just weren't there any more.

So far I like the Charger R/T, but it isn't really a match let alone a replacement for the Bonneville SSEi. It's only been a few weeks though.
 
#111 ·
Dodge(Charger/Challenger) is like a Pontiac from another "mother"! :D



!!!!
 
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