GM quality problems

[F14CRAZY]

I'm with you...I hope that GM has figured things out so there won't be widespread, common issues anymore

[impala02]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Yes the head bolts pull out of the block and that causes the head gasket to fail.. and yes that was supposed to have been FINALLY fixed starting with MY 2004. (Though failures continue to occur) It will likely be fixed in 2011 when the NorthStar is retired..

I think the point of his post was that he hopes that NEW GM has put some of these problems, which cost them customers, behind them.

Oh and when my parents traded in their ES a year or so now... now that you mention it the salesman did say that it had a clunk in the steering and that was very common on these cars and that they fixed LOTS of them... mostly under "goodwill"... I wonder how many GM dealers fix these for free.

I think the point is that we need to learn from our past mistakes and avoid them in the future. The LSx engines have proven to be ROCK solid motors... but how many Cadillac motors did we have, IN A FREAKING ROW, for how many years with serious design flaws? How many engineers/managers at Cadillac were fired over this?



You might want to post a different example... Once Toyota figured out what was going on with their sluggy motors they started to bring them in and TOYOTA paid to have the motors fixed... on warranty or off warranty... if your engine gummed up Toyota was quick to make it right... Has GM ever admitted to the design flaw in 1993-2003 NorthStars? (Hint...The answer is ... Nope) How many has GM called back or offered to fix off warranty for free (Hint the answer is ZERO) See the difference?

You may want to learn a little more about the sludge plagued Toyota engines and Toyota's response to the owners of those vehicles. What you said just sounds like Toyota spin. But that isn't how it happened at all. The only reason Toyota "decided" to fix/replace the engines on their dime was because of a class-action lawsuit. It wasn't because Toyota finally figured out what was going on decided on their own to make things right.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...ettlement.html

http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...702070349/1148

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by impala02

You may want to learn a little more about the sludge plagued Toyota engines and Toyota's response to the owners of those vehicles. What you said just sounds like Toyota spin. But that isn't how it happened at all. The only reason Toyota "decided" to fix/replace the engines on their dime was because of a class-action lawsuit. It wasn't because Toyota finally figured out what was going on decided on their own to make things right.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news0...ettlement.html

http://www.oilgelsettlement.com/

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...702070349/1148

Thanks for the tip... I guess I should encourage my buddies with leaky NorthStars to start a class action too.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

You might want to post a different example... Once Toyota figured out what was going on with their sluggy motors they started to bring them in and TOYOTA paid to have the motors fixed... on warranty or off warranty... if your engine gummed up Toyota was quick to make it right... Has GM ever admitted to the design flaw in 1993-2003 NorthStars? (Hint...The answer is ... Nope) How many has GM called back or offered to fix off warranty for free (Hint the answer is ZERO) See the difference?

werent lawsuits filed against toyota? i believe there were. i dont believe there were any against gm. thats the difference.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by chakis24

werent lawsuits filed against toyota? i believe there were. i dont believe there were any against gm. thats the difference.

You are right, Thanks to Impala02's tip I will let my friends know that they need to sue GM... I wonder if it is Old GM or New GM that gets served?

[1979RS]

Originally Posted by impala02

I had no idea Toyota used the same unit. That makes alot of sense though because the ISS clunk is also very common in the Camry. However, Toyota owners don't complain as much as the GM people.

Maybe GM people are more discriminating and less willing to put up with crap than Toyota people.

[Hoagie]

No one is forcing any of you to buy GM or Ford or anything made here in this country. if you don't like it, don't buy it. you people are killing this country. bunch of freakin whiners.

[calgaryhhr]

I agree that there are certain problems and issues with GM vehicles that should be taken care of instead with re-engineering or re-design instead of allowing them to go on for years. The interior steering shaft is one such problem which has gone on for years and affected many models. I had the shaft replaced in my HHR within the second year of ownership.

Another such problem that I am aware of and have had problems with is brake rotor related. A lot of HHR owners (and from what I understand/briefly read it is also a problem with the Cobalt) have had brake rotors warp very early in the vehicles life. Mine were turned/machined in the first few months and turned a second time as well. Many owners have had their rotors turned a number of times during the first few years of ownership. Many have decided to purchase aftermarket rotors.

GM knows about all/most of the issues with their vehicles and components because they put out TSB after TSB. They seem to be very slow at re-designing or re-engineering their components though.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by CRBoyd91

Speaking of which I notice a lot of Impalas and Grand Prixs or the others with the 3800 having an incredibly whiny power steering noise. Mine does it even though the pumps been replaced twice and I've seen other Grand Prixs and several Impalas even cop cars doing it. I wonder if it's jsut inherent.

My power steering was very whiny as well. I checked the power steering fluid level (not an easy task) and found that it was nearly empty. This could just be a common problem on the most recent W-Body vehicles. My old Grand Prix never had those kinds of issues.

I also have an issue with leaky head and tail lights. On my old Grand Prix the head light fogged up, I got a replacement and that fogged up. I then got a 3rd free of charge and that seems to have done the trick. The tail light also leaks, it fills nearly 2/3 of the way with water so I drilled a hole in the bottom for drainage.

Another complain with at least three vehicles in the fleet would be Dex-Cool related. An '03 Montana, '03 Sierra and '02 Grand Prix all leak coolant (Montana may burn it) and it's sort of unacceptable.

These quality issues are fairly common and easy for GM to fix. Switch suppliers for head/tail lights and ditch coolant for regular green coolant.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by CadiEldo67

Another complain with at least three vehicles in the fleet would be Dex-Cool related. An '03 Montana, '03 Sierra and '02 Grand Prix all leak coolant (Montana may burn it) and it's sort of unacceptable.

These quality issues are fairly common and easy for GM to fix. Switch suppliers for head/tail lights and ditch coolant for regular green coolant.

Coolant conspiracy theory...

The truth about dex...

1) Regardless of what GM says, the service schedule of 5 years is too long.
2) GM built lots of engines that have no leak issues on Dex (like the rock solid LS1,2,3...) Cast iron, Cast Aluminum all of the LS family motors have no issue with this coolant. If Dex was acidic to aluminum or what have you these engines would be falling apart too... they aren't.
3) GM built lots of engines that have lots of leaking issues on Dex (like pre 2004 NorthStars, and certain 3.1, 3.4, 3.8 and 4.3 liter engines.) These engines all have issues like plastic intake manifolds, goofy gasket systems or POS headbolts that would have likely failed REGARDLESS of the coolant.

If you replace the Dex every other year or so you can avoid much of the sludge and other problems.

IMO these are engineering and design failures... Not coolant issues.

[CadiEldo67]

^ All excellent points. But it still shouldn't happen.

[05ChevySilveradoSS]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Coolant conspiracy theory...

The truth about dex...

1) Regardless of what GM says, the service schedule of 5 years is too long.
2) GM built lots of engines that have no leak issues on Dex (like the rock solid LS1,2,3...) Cast iron, Cast Aluminum all of the LS family motors have no issue with this coolant. If Dex was acidic to aluminum or what have you these engines would be falling apart too... they aren't.
3) GM built lots of engines that have lots of leaking issues on Dex (like pre 2004 NorthStars, and certain 3.1, 3.4, 3.8 and 4.3 liter engines.) These engines all have issues like plastic intake manifolds, goofy gasket systems or POS headbolts that would have likely failed REGARDLESS of the coolant.

If you replace the Dex every other year or so you can avoid much of the sludge and other problems.

IMO these are engineering and design failures... Not coolant issues.

True true. Oh and dont forget about the 1996-1997 Vortec 5700's. They were awful! I remember back then they were still heavy on the roads my dealership was full of those intake manifold leaks lol (mostly external, but for some i felt for them because it was internal) and they either had to replace the engine or junk the vehicle. And i talked to Gm headquarters, and they said there was nothing i could do for those customers
Sad. . . . .

[1999 White C5 Coupe]

Originally Posted by motorman

will there will be no more intake gasket problems and intermediate steering shaft problems that went on for years. these 2 problems have chased away lots of old GM customers as i had the intermediate steering shaft problem with a new 1982 celebrity and a new 2004 impala. lots of people complain about GM using cheap materials in their interiors but using cheap materials in the parts of the car that counts is a bigger problem they have to solve

You forgot to mention the steering column lock malfunction fiasco with the C5 Corvettes.....

The ISS shaft was replaced by the dealer on my 2004 Grand Prix GT and the ISS is starting to clunk slightly on slow speed turns on my 2008 Impala LTZ which has 17,000 miles on it (neither car wrecked).

I agree with you 100%

[05ChevySilveradoSS]

^^^^ And you know whats crazy, i havent ever seen the 1999-2002 Silverado's with the ISS problems. My 02 has never skipped a beat, its never had any problems with the steering shaft or clunking, though my wife's old 04 Tahoe did. I replaced it several times before we traded it for the 08. Crazy.

[87silver]

Originally Posted by calgaryhhr

Another such problem that I am aware of and have had problems with is brake rotor related. A lot of HHR owners (and from what I understand/briefly read it is also a problem with the Cobalt) have had brake rotors warp very early in the vehicles life. Mine were turned/machined in the first few months and turned a second time as well. Many owners have had their rotors turned a number of times during the first few years of ownership. Many have decided to purchase aftermarket rotors.

Warped rotors were also supposed to be a problem on the GMT330 platforms (Blazer, Bravada, S10, etc). Not stating anything official, but many (as we did) found the issue to be overtorqued wheel lugs when the tires were rotated. Maybe they're low quality rotors, but with a little care, they CAN last throughout their intended service life.

Case in point; on our 2000 Bravada, we replaced the front brake pads for the 1st time last week. The car has 92,000 miles on the odo. First brake service since we bought it new 9 years ago. We ALWAYS rotate the tires ourselves with a torque stick.

My next door neighbor has turned down the factory rotors once, then eventually replaced them on his 2002 Blazer. He religiously takes the car to Wallymart to have the tires rotated. They used the buzz gun (as he stated). I think that Wally is changing their ways, though.

We also have a 2 Delta platform cars (an HHR and a Cobalt). No problems with rotors here either. We rotate the tires on these vehicles using a torque stick as well.