GM quality problems

[motorman]

will there will be no more intake gasket problems and intermediate steering shaft problems that went on for years. these 2 problems have chased away lots of old GM customers as i had the intermediate steering shaft problem with a new 1982 celebrity and a new 2004 impala. lots of people complain about GM using cheap materials in their interiors but using cheap materials in the parts of the car that counts is a bigger problem they have to solve

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by motorman

will there will be no more intake gasket problems and intermediate steering shaft problems that went on for years. these 2 problems have chased away lots of old GM customers as i had the intermediate steering shaft problem with a new 1982 celebrity and a new 2004 impala. lots of people complain about GM using cheap materials in their interiors but using cheap materials in the parts of the car that counts is a bigger problem they have to solve

God I hope so... You forgot to mention head gaskets on Quad 4's HT4100's and NorthStars.

[tbirderic]

I'm with you motorman.

[tom3]

Problem is that it takes time to regain customer's trust. GM doesn't have that time, assuming the quality is at a higher level.

[sonjaab]

Wake up GM haters.........This is 2009 !!!!!!! Yes 2009 !

Toyoyo uses the SAME Delphi steering column/shaft in the camry and I
don't see too many complaints on the toyo forums.
And a 1982 celebrity?????? 28 years ago?

Quad 4s have been DEAD since 01? Ht 4100 been dead since 1988?????

Northstars haven't been having headgasket issues you may mean PULLING headbolts
outta the block problems but that has been corrected since 02?
I had/have 4 of them all run hard and put away wet with no issues.

[impala02]

Originally Posted by sonjaab

Wake up GM haters.........This is 2009 !!!!!!! Yes 2009 !

Toyoyo uses the SAME Delphi steering column/shaft in the camry and I
don't see too many complaints on the toyo forums.
And a 1982 celebrity?????? 28 years ago?

Quad 4s have been DEAD since 01? Ht 4100 been dead since 1988?????

Northstars haven't been having headgasket issues you may mean PULLING headbolts
outta the block problems but that has been corrected since 02?
I had/have 4 of them all run hard and put away wet with no issues.

I had no idea Toyota used the same unit. That makes alot of sense though because the ISS clunk is also very common in the Camry. However, Toyota owners don't complain as much as the GM people.

[cbennie2]

Originally Posted by impala02

I had no idea Toyota used the same unit. That makes alot of sense though because the ISS clunk is also very common in the Camry. However, Toyota owners don't complain as much as the GM people.

Why would they complain, they bought a Toyota that NEVER has issues

[dr.gizmo]

I read somewhere that last year Toyota recalled more cars than they built. The tool jobbers tell us that the Toyota dealers shop is full of cars with the engines tore down because they sludge up and restrict the oil passages. No Toyota's are totally trouble free, that is why they don't have service departments. Working in the shop on GM cars owners are starting to seem a bit on the whinny side. We are almost starving from a lack of work, the reliability on todays GM product is very good. We do not see near the trouble with driveability and leakage that there was a few years ago, but people come in and fuss and fume because their favorite radio station that is 50 miles away and is running a total of 5,000 Watts does not come in good enough. Or they cannot figure out how to hit the button to reset their memory seat.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by sonjaab

Wake up GM haters.........This is 2009 !!!!!!! Yes 2009 !

Toyoyo uses the SAME Delphi steering column/shaft in the camry and I
don't see too many complaints on the toyo forums.
And a 1982 celebrity?????? 28 years ago?

Quad 4s have been DEAD since 01? Ht 4100 been dead since 1988?????

Northstars haven't been having headgasket issues you may mean PULLING headbolts
outta t
he block problems but that has been corrected since 02?
I had/have 4 of them all run hard and put away wet with no issues.

Yes the head bolts pull out of the block and that causes the head gasket to fail.. and yes that was supposed to have been FINALLY fixed starting with MY 2004. (Though failures continue to occur) It will likely be fixed in 2011 when the NorthStar is retired..

I think the point of his post was that he hopes that NEW GM has put some of these problems, which cost them customers, behind them.

Oh and when my parents traded in their ES a year or so now... now that you mention it the salesman did say that it had a clunk in the steering and that was very common on these cars and that they fixed LOTS of them... mostly under "goodwill"... I wonder how many GM dealers fix these for free.

I think the point is that we need to learn from our past mistakes and avoid them in the future. The LSx engines have proven to be ROCK solid motors... but how many Cadillac motors did we have, IN A FREAKING ROW, for how many years with serious design flaws? How many engineers/managers at Cadillac were fired over this?

Originally Posted by dr.gizmo

Tootta dealers shop is full of cars with the engines tore down because they sludge up and restrict the oil passages.

You might want to post a different example... Once Toyota figured out what was going on with their sluggy motors they started to bring them in and TOYOTA paid to have the motors fixed... on warranty or off warranty... if your engine gummed up Toyota was quick to make it right... Has GM ever admitted to the design flaw in 1993-2003 NorthStars? (Hint...The answer is ... Nope) How many has GM called back or offered to fix off warranty for free (Hint the answer is ZERO) See the difference?

[CRBoyd91]

Speaking of which I notice a lot of Impalas and Grand Prixs or the others with the 3800 having an incredibly whiny power steering noise. Mine does it even though the pumps been replaced twice and I've seen other Grand Prixs and several Impalas even cop cars doing it. I wonder if it's jsut inherent.

[dr.gizmo]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Yes the head bolts pull out of the block and that causes the head gasket to fail.. and yes that was supposed to have been FINALLY fixed starting with MY 2004. (Though failures continue to occur) It will likely be fixed in 2011 when the NorthStar is retired..

I think the point of his post was that he hopes that NEW GM has put some of these problems, which cost them customers, behind them.

Oh and when my parents traded in their ES a year or so now... now that you mention it the salesman did say that it had a clunk in the steering and that was very common on these cars and that they fixed LOTS of them... mostly under "goodwill"... I wonder how many GM dealers fix these for free.

I think the point is that we need to learn from our past mistakes and avoid them in the future. The LSx engines have proven to be ROCK solid motors... but how many Cadillac motors did we have, IN A FREAKING ROW, for how many years with serious design flaws? How many engineers/managers at Cadillac were fired over this?



You might want to post a different example... Once Toyota figured out what was going on with their sluggy motors they started to bring them in and TOYOTA paid to have the motors fixed... on warranty or off warranty... if your engine gummed up Toyota was quick to make it right... Has GM ever admitted to the design flaw in 1993-2003 NorthStars? (Hint...The answer is ... Nope) How many has GM called back or offered to fix off warranty for free (Hint the answer is ZERO) See the difference?

GM does customer satisfaction recalls all the time. The first that comes to mind is the water leak repair from the sunroof on Acadia's. Gm also has a ton of special policy's out extending the warranty on known major problem areas. Unlike some Japanese makers GM does a lot of goodwill repairs. I used to work at a dealer that dueled with Mazda. If the owner did not get their maintenance validated in the back of the owners manual the warranty was voided. I remember a customer that missed one oil change and his head blew 100 miles out of warranty. Guess what Mazda would not cover it despite the fact this was a common and known problem. The guy definitely deserved the repair for free but because he missed one oil change it was denied, GM would have covered this in a heartbeat.

[Canyonaro]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

You might want to post a different example... Once Toyota figured out what was going on with their sluggy motors they started to bring them in and TOYOTA paid to have the motors fixed... on warranty or off warranty... if your engine gummed up Toyota was quick to make it right... Has GM ever admitted to the design flaw in 1993-2003 NorthStars? (Hint...The answer is ... Nope) How many has GM called back or offered to fix off warranty for free (Hint the answer is ZERO) See the difference?

First off Toyota was never quick to respond to the sludge problem. That went on for years with more and more complaints. They finally years (yes years) later admitted that the design "might" effect oil flow and then fixed those engines for free. This was after many people replaced their engines on their dime since Toyota claimed it was their fault for not changing the oil soon enough.

Look on the web check it out, you will see many of these stories, and exact dates.

EDIT:

"Toyota sent ripples throughout the industry last month
by announcing that it would change its usual warranty policies to cover
repairs to motors installed in several 1997-2001 model lines if those
engines turned up damaged by oil sludge. The offer, which runs for a
year, covers engines installed in 1997-2001 Toyota Camrys, Solaras,
Sienna minivans, Avalon sedans, Highlander sport utilities, and Lexus
ES300s and RX300s.

The action isn't a recall, Toyota said: Only people whose engines
actually are damaged by oil sludging -- or gelling, as the company
terms it -- will get the benefit of this deal. Still, the announcement
marks a victory for consumers and a defeat for the industry's
conventional behavior toward customers with complaints.

Toyota says it knows of some 3,000 complaints about oil sludging in its
engines, but denies its products are in any way defective. Until last
month, Toyota's official response to many of the customers who turned up
at dealerships with gunk-slimed engines was to contend that the
customers were at fault.

Toyota says it knows of some 3,000 complaints about oil sludging in its
engines, but denies its products are in any way defective."

"Send your comments about Eyes on the Road to joseph.white@wsj.com."


So to recap from one article in the Wall Street Journal in 2002, Toyota never recalled anything although there was an obvious problem. No car company is immune to bad products and wanting to shift the blame for them. At least GM is now starting to make better products.

[sonjaab]

Toyoyo DRAGGED their feet for years over the sludge issues with their engines and MANY owners paid for repairs on their OWN dime!

If your saying that the "good company toyoyo" stepped right up and fixed them at the first sign of a problem you are either misinformed or nutz ! They dragged their feet for several years!

But yet again..................toyoyo gets a PASS!
They are such a good American company and can do no wrong!

GM BAD...............toyoyo good!

Anyhoo............Check any camry or even a blundra truck thats a GM Delphi
steering wheel/airbag/column right there!
Look in a Cobalt/G-6/Silverado for comparison.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by sonjaab

Toyoyo DRAGGED their feet for years over the sludge issues with their engines and MANY owners paid for repairs on their OWN dime!

If your saying that the "good company toyoyo" stepped right up and fixed them at the first sign of a problem you are either misinformed or nutz ! They dragged their feet for several years!

But yet again..................toyoyo gets a PASS!
They are such a good American company and can do no wrong!

GM BAD...............toyoyo good!

Anyhoo............Check any camry or even a blundra truck thats a GM Delphi
steering wheel/airbag/column right there!
Look in a Cobalt/G-6/Silverado for comparison.

I never said "at the first sign of problem" I said "once they figured out what was going on"... Yes Toyota dragged their feet...and blamed customers for not changing their oil and some customers got F'ed over and had to pay for repairs on their own dime... but in the end they did the right thing... And turned a huge negative into a slightly positive.

When my partents bought their ES the Lexus Sales guy was open and discussed sludge problems before any of us brought it up... He brought it to their attention... before they had signed anything... He reminded them of how important oil changes were and that if the engine sludges they would back it up.

If you want and example of feet dragging GM knew about NorthStar HeadGasket/Headbolts for over 5 years.. did NOTHING... There was LOTS of evidence of problems as early as 1995.. it took them 10 years to actually change the casting to "finally" fix the block. The number of these covered under goodwill ... ziltch.

Yes Toyota gets a pass... a C/C+ on their sludge problem
GM on the NorthStar Headgaskets... they do not get a pass... at best its a big fat D.

[linton23]

Lets not forget Toyota is now taking a beating on Frame rust on the Tacoma pickups.