Don't kill Kappa

[Cdesign]

The rear diff is not part of the platform. That has absolutely nothing to do with the platform.


The link I provided is picture of a SEDAN BUILT ON A KAPPA PLATFORM, BUILT BY HOLDEN (a GM Company) so the statement made and repeated and pointed to is not entirely true. A production sedan may not be affordable if based off Kappa, but then again it very well might be. The problem might be that the current line can only handle a certain amount, since it is geared for lower volumes. I remember reading in numerous magazines and automotive websites that GM was considering both small 2+2 and small sedans on Kappa. Right from the get go they would know if the platform they designed was unable to handle those configurations.


I can read but when there is factual evidence to prove a comment wrong, why bother disputing more ?

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by schmallz

See the post above yours.

see my post above

[mbukukanyau]

Perhaps if they made kappa exclusive to Cadillac and let it "trickle down" they might fetch better prices?

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by Cdesign

The rear diff is not part of the platform. That has absolutely nothing to do with the platform.


The link I provided is picture of a SEDAN BUILT ON A KAPPA PLATFORM, BUILT BY HOLDEN (a GM Company) so the statement made and repeated and pointed to is not entirely true. A production sedan may not be affordable if based off Kappa, but then again it very well might be. The problem might be that the current line can only handle a certain amount, since it is geared for lower volumes. I remember reading in numerous magazines and automotive websites that GM was considering both small 2+2 and small sedans on Kappa. Right from the get go they would know if the platform they designed was unable to handle those configurations.


I can read but when there is factual evidence to prove a comment wrong, why bother disputing more ?

A heavily modified Kappa platform, with parts from Sigma...

Kappa will be replaced by the SWB Alpha, which uses alot of Kappa components.

Look to the next gen. Solstice, Sky/GT to ride on SWB Alpha, and I would put money on a sub-compact Caddy ATS.

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by schmallz

A heavily modified Kappa platform, with parts from Sigma...

Kappa will be replaced by the SWB Alpha, which uses alot of Kappa components.

Look to the next gen. Solstice, Sky/GT to ride on SWB Alpha, and I would put money on a sub-compact Caddy ATS.

well, considering it is a 4 door sedan, of course it is heavily modified. But that does not change the fact that it is Kappa based.

All I am saying is the Kappa based Cars have blown away a lot of people with their great handling. If GM is replacing the Kappa with a simple RWD platform that is not as rigid and stiff, it will be a shame.

Go drive a Audi A6 S-line or a BMW 5 series, then go drive a impala, then you will see what I mean. This is not anything about AWD, RWD or FWD, it is about the dynamics of the platform. The Audi and BMW use a very stiff chassis, providing a great sporting feel when driven. I simply don't want GM to lose that. They have a chance to win a lot of people over by providing a great driving vehicle.

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by Cdesign

well, considering it is a 4 door sedan, of course it is heavily modified. But that does not change the fact that it is Kappa based.

All I am saying is the Kappa based Cars have blown away a lot of people with their great handling. If GM is replacing the Kappa with a simple RWD platform that is not as rigid and stiff, it will be a shame.

Go drive a Audi A6 S-line or a BMW 5 series, then go drive a impala, then you will see what I mean. This is not anything about AWD, RWD or FWD, it is about the dynamics of the platform. The Audi and BMW use a very stiff chassis, providing a great sporting feel when driven. I simply don't want GM to lose that. They have a chance to win a lot of people over by providing a great driving vehicle.

What makes you think that Alpha won't be fun to drive or please enthusiests like you or me?

The Bottom line is that Kappa cannot be stretched any larger than it's current state. If GM was to produce a 2+2 coupe or a sedan on Kappa it would be very very small. It would be about the Size of the Mini Cooper Clubman (156'). Way smaller than the Aveo (169.7') 1 Series (171.7') or A3 (168.7).

The Holden Torana TT36 Concept that bowed in 2004 was made on a very exspensive hybrid platform. The cost to mass produce this (even in low volumes like the Kappa models now) would be astronomical.

Alpha's dimensions, like Zeta's and to some extent Sigma's, is variable. Making it much more fexible than Kappa ever could be.

Alpha is a hybrid of Kappa and Zeta parts. GM didn't do that to save money, they didn't do that to make a softer handling car, they didn't do it to alienate customers. They did it because it is better.

If you are looking for GM to put a car like the S6 or the 550i on Kappa than I have some bad news for you.

[zete]

Originally Posted by Kennyboy

Kappa platform has problems with the rear differential leaking. Several of my friends that owned a Pontiac Solstice have problems with the rear differential leaking. They told me that it's very annoying that a domestic car maker can't even build a low volume product correctly.

The rear diff on the Sky/Solstice is from the last gen CTS. It also had diff leak problems. I know, mine leaked. It's not the fault of Kappa but of the design for the rear diff.

One good thing about the rear diff is that they can't leak out completely, only about half way. So it's not as bad as a leak on some of the older style diffs from the 80s where a misplaced seal leak would lead to some bad news.

[Cdesign]

Originally Posted by schmallz

What makes you think that Alpha won't be fun to drive or please enthusiests like you or me?

The Bottom line is that Kappa cannot be stretched any larger than it's current state. If GM was to produce a 2+2 coupe or a sedan on Kappa it would be very very small. It would be about the Size of the Mini Cooper Clubman (156'). Way smaller than the Aveo (169.7') 1 Series (171.7') or A3 (168.7).

The Holden Torana TT36 Concept that bowed in 2004 was made on a very exspensive hybrid platform. The cost to mass produce this (even in low volumes like the Kappa models now) would be astronomical.

Alpha's dimensions, like Zeta's and to some extent Sigma's, is variable. Making it much more fexible than Kappa ever could be.

Alpha is a hybrid of Kappa and Zeta parts. GM didn't do that to save money, they didn't do that to make a softer handling car, they didn't do it to alienate customers. They did it because it is better.

If you are looking for GM to put a car like the S6 or the 550i on Kappa than I have some bad news for you.

I didn't say it won't please me. I was saying they should make it a very sporty platform and not a typical unibody construction flexible as 1 day old gum type of chassis. I would prefer they keep kappa and modify it, however if they are doing just that in order to keep it sporty, then I have no complaint.

I am looking for GM to put out a great handling car with a great chassis, should I ask for less? Just give me enough to where I won't complain too much? Just give me enough to where I'll still buy the damn thing?

Impress me, don't give me just enough. The Malibu impresses me. The trailblazer I owned impressed me. The 02 Malibu I owned impressed me, even though it was as exciting as a toaster, it impressed me with it's dependability. I think they should aim high for this new platform, with their recent record, I an sure they can achieve it as well. If you don't think as highly of GM as I do, sorry.

[JBsZ06]

Can someone help me and show me where it has been said the Kappa chassis can be extended relatively inexpensively?

Thanks in advance and not arguing with the statement.

JB

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by JBsZ06

Can someone help me and show me where it has been said the Kappa chassis can be extended relatively inexpensively?

Thanks in advance and not arguing with the statement.

JB

From what I have read and heard, Kappa cannot be extended. That is why Alpha is comming. That is why SWB Alpha will replace Kappa.

[schmallz]

From Wiki regarding the Alpha platform:

"The Alpha project can trace its roots back to Holden's TT36 Torana project of 2004. At that stage, Holden was strongly interested in developing GM's then-idea of a small RWD style platform to go up against BMW's 3 Series range. The company took this concept and worked through GM's parts bin to come away with the end product. Holden borrowed parts and modules from various other GM platforms, the key contributor being its Kappa platform. The Kappa platform's double-A-arm front and rear suspensions provided the basis for the platform's Lower Dominate Structure (LDS). The platform's unique LDS forms its backbone, whilst at the same time providing a stronger, tighter base with which to work with, giving any car which receives the platform a better chance at achieving high-performance goals. By using an LDS, it gives both designers and engineers more flexibility in relation to the design of the upper body of the car, while also maximising space efficiency."

[NoNameDenton]

Originally Posted by schmallz

From Wiki regarding the Alpha platform:

"The Alpha project can trace its roots back to Holden's TT36 Torana project of 2004. At that stage, Holden was strongly interested in developing GM's then-idea of a small RWD style platform to go up against BMW's 3 Series range. The company took this concept and worked through GM's parts bin to come away with the end product. Holden borrowed parts and modules from various other GM platforms, the key contributor being its Kappa platform. The Kappa platform's double-A-arm front and rear suspensions provided the basis for the platform's Lower Dominate Structure (LDS). The platform's unique LDS forms its backbone, whilst at the same time providing a stronger, tighter base with which to work with, giving any car which receives the platform a better chance at achieving high-performance goals. By using an LDS, it gives both designers and engineers more flexibility in relation to the design of the upper body of the car, while also maximising space efficiency."

Schmallz, you deserve a medal for diggng this up

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by NoNameDenton

Schmallz, you deserve a medal for diggng this up

Thanks, first I went to google, then yahoo, then ask jeeves but i realized that ask jeeves sucks so i went back to yahoo and clicked on the first link for GM Alpha.

I don't need a medal, a a trophy will do fine.

[NoNameDenton]

Originally Posted by schmallz

Thanks, first I went to google, then yahoo, then ask jeeves but i realized that ask jeeves sucks so i went back to yahoo and clicked on the first link for GM Alpha.

I don't need a medal, a a trophy will do fine.

I am glad Kappa is being replaced by a more flexible platform that can make rwd 2 seaters and sedans