Off Track: Buick And Alpha

[mjd1001]

I agree with this article in general, but for a reason most people here don't agree with. I think you NEED a good selection of FWD cars. For RWD, you have most of the Cadillac lineup. You'll have the upcoming Chevy SS, you have the Camaro. There are a lot of choices for RWD needs/wants. However, there are a good number of poeple who simply want FWD cars (not enthusiasts, but the majority of the buying public.) You have to have more FWD choices than RWD choices.

[caddycruiser]

As much as I love my Regal GS and its rarity, and everything about the way it drives and performs, as cool as performance Buicks are and have been...they are really not what Buick needs, nor do they fit best with the brand. It's an odd fit and the sales numbers show it, us few enthusiasts who buy and enjoy them aside.

I like the Verano but not more than the Regal in any way, and it's still a smaller, different car. Glad it's doing well along with the Lacrosse and Enclave. As with other brands, especially Cadillac, product mix and selection are key. But right now GM money does not need to go to a RWD platform for use yet, other than maybe a halo Riviera of sorts...but even that won't sell in numbers. Focus on what is important and what sells, and allocate funding properly.

[crm2019]

Don't get too many irons in the fire, Buick.

[bballr4567]

Those cars being refined has nothing to do with RWD. Many (including a lot of reviewers) claim the Audi A8 is the best large luxury sedan on the market right now. And it's built on a FWD platform. Refined cars can be built on any configuration of driving wheels.

But is it FWD? No.


Overlap isnt what killed GM. Lack of defining vehicles did. You dont think the V6/2.0T 6th gen Camaro is going to overlap with the ATS? What about the V8 that will be faster than anything the ATS offers? There is always overlap but its in how you define it that makes it successful or unsuccessful.

[the_smurf2008]

Disagree Alex. RWD adds more to Buick than Buick having RWD detracts/distracts from other products.

[Z284ever]

Well, GM needs to tread carefully here. The rumor mill has been telling us for years that if Buick were to go Alpha, it'd be in a fancy Riv type coupe/convertible. Now.....it's pegged to Code 130R production, apparently? Well who knows....

About the Regal GS, it's a cool car and I applaud GM for bringing it here. Very nicely appointed, handles great and more or less adequate power. But on that last point, the 2.0T really struggles to move this hefty piece with authority. For the price, it needs a better power to weight ratio. Perhaps that's why it really hasn't caught fire in enthusiast circles.

[krusshall]

If you bring any discussion of Chevrolet or Cadillac into this then the discussion is lost. Buick needs to do what is right for Buick. If that means sharing platforms then so be it. And I still think the problem is that most of you cannot disassociate badge engineering with platform sharing.

[emh]

But is it FWD? No.

So are you saying Buick can't build FWD-based AWD and that's what holding them back

Overlap isnt what killed GM. Lack of defining vehicles did. You dont think the V6/2.0T 6th gen Camaro is going to overlap with the ATS? What about the V8 that will be faster than anything the ATS offers? There is always overlap but its in how you define it that makes it successful or unsuccessful.

Buick's role is to offer a more refined alternative to mainstream vehicles at a modest premium. What configuration do you think that will look like?

[John Wilde]

Buick and Opel do need RWD to compete with their German, Japanese and Korean rivals.
They should have a coupe and a sedan at least.
If the first Alpha Buick is Code 130R sized like the pictures I posted then it is different than the Camaro.
Personally I think the Camaro should be smaller and the Buick should be a true 2+3.
What do I know, I have only owned 2 T Types and a Grand National...

[61BelAir]

I don't agree with this line of thinking at all. So what if a RWD Buick eats up some sales of one of its stable mates. A sale is a sale, its money in GM's pocket. GM needs to share platforms and differentiate them with different sheetmetal and different options. There are a lot of people who don't care about RWD, but there are a lot of people who do care and Buick is ignoring that market. That is lost sales and if you lose those people to the imports, then, you possibly lose them for a lifetime. People who buy a new car today, are most likely going to buy a new car five years from now. Do you want them buying another Buick when that time comes, or do you want them buying a Lexus, Audi, or Infiniti? Once people switch to a different brand, they usually stay with that brand.

[spd98]

The current Regal just suffers from being a more expensive car in the showroom. There is nothing that set's it apart to potential buyers. Most of your potential buyers, buy it for the drive, not anything else. Otherwise it isn't different enough from Lacross. The next Generation Regal should bea little bigger and sportier. I would say that the Regal should be heavier than ATS (less exotic materials in the chasis) and have a few less luxury features at a lower price point.

I think your missing a major point on the building of the car. Regal is currently build stateside but was built in Europe. If then can do the other why not recipricate?

Odds are we're at least 2 years away from a car anyway. They will have to retool the plant in Europe to produce the next Insignia anyway. The capitol investment would be looked upon favorably in this economic climate especially if Opel is still on the ropes. The car could be jointly developed between Buick and Opel so tuning wouldn't be an issue. It makes more sense to badge it as a Buick (which should demand a higher price point BTW) than to crowd it into a Chevy showroom.

[Z284ever]

Buick and Opel do need RWD to compete with their German, Japanese and Korean rivals.
They should have a coupe and a sedan at least.
If the first Alpha Buick is Code 130R sized like the pictures I posted then it is different than the Camaro.
Personally I think the Camaro should be smaller and the Buick should be a true 2+3.
What do I know, I have only owned 2 T Types and a Grand National...

Good points. If Buick were to embrace RWD, it my little world, I'd love to see the grand presence of the likes of the previous Wildcats or Rivs. A Buick version of the Code is more about selling Buicks in China and Opels in Europe. As I said in my last post - GM should consider carefully.

[Ppmammp]

I hate to agree with the idea that Buick should not get an Alpha based car, but it is the right decision. I had thought about a Alpha Buick as the new Regal, but cannot make a good case for it. It would compete against the ATS which would command a higher ATP, than a Buick version, diluteing the Cadillac brand. The Regal is being cannibalized within Buick by the LaCrosse and the Verano, and has not seen success as a premium Lux/Sport sedan against either European or Asian competitors. Buick could keep the Regal on the current platform as a true performance sedan with a base FWD turbo 4 @ 260 hp, a version the GS version FWD with a turbo 4 @ 290 hp w hyperstruts and a eLSD front diff and a GN AWD Haldex version with a turbo V6 @ 330 hp. If Buick needs a car the has more space than a Verano and less than LaCrosse to appeal to midsize sedan buyers they should steal a page from the Europeans and offer a Verano L. Stretch the Verano 3.3 inches aft of the B pillar and you would have a backseat more gererous the the current Regal has in a slightly shorter package that would be 200 lbs lighter than the current Regal. Buicks biggest problem is that it only has three automobiles to sell. It needs to add a minimum of two models to be a serious competitor in the premium market. It clearly needs a personal luxury (Quad) coupe, the Riv, and the soon to be introduced Cascada as a follow on to the Saab Converts that were market sucesses. If Buick is to have a large car it would be far more effective with a 115" wheelbase version of the new Impala's platform. It would truely big Buick spacious but with less rear overhang it would be less than 201 in OAL. Buick needs to utilize low pressure v6 turbos to give the torque of a v8 with the economy of a v6, the effortless power that Buick is famous for.

[posaune]

I don't agree with this line of thinking at all. So what if a RWD Buick eats up some sales of one of its stable mates. A sale is a sale, its money in GM's pocket. GM needs to share platforms and differentiate them with different sheetmetal and different options.

It cost GM money to create each version that goes on the platform. It also cost more to differentiate the sheet metal and not just badge engineer. GM needs to not compete with itself like the old GM used to. It isn't just a sale is a sale, it isn't that simple.

[bballr4567]

The current Regal just suffers from being a more expensive car in the showroom. There is nothing that set's it apart to potential buyers. Most of your potential buyers, buy it for the drive, not anything else. Otherwise it isn't different enough from Lacross. The next Generation Regal should bea little bigger and sportier. I would say that the Regal should be heavier than ATS (less exotic materials in the chasis) and have a few less luxury features at a lower price point.

Changing the chassis material would require a lot of work as they would have to figure out how much of what to use and to see if it would even work.


The really weird thing is that the base ATS really doesnt have much standard. Regal comes with a touch screen standard now. ATS has a 4" non touch. Fog lights are standard on the Regal. Leather seats. Autodimming mirrors. Pass through trunk. Aux power outlet. Rear climate control.