Next Buick Excelle = Opel Astra?

[andy1234]

Originally Posted by samkung

Well according to the spy shot provided by a chinese auto-website, the answer is obvious, at least the hatch version would be based on the Opel Astra.

Anyway i will let you guys decide

Definately is the new Astra. GM will have to negotiate with Opel's new owners if they want it though.

[zete]

Originally Posted by jmlee0695

Zete, I doubt we get the G8 or Statesman as a Buick. If Cadillac is getting a large FWD car, thats what Buick will get

Originally Posted by page2171

Makes sense, but if it is that easy why is Cadillac replacing the DTS with a Epsilon II based car?

It's already a Buick. It's not as if GM has to go and spend any money building it or the interior or any other aspect of this car. This car is already being sold as a Buick in China. There is no new DTS here or anywhere else on the planet.

The issue is why GM is picking EpII over Zeta for the DTS/DT7. The obvious reason is cost. But it might also be that EpII is more flexible especially if GM wants to put Voltec into the DTS/DT7. That would also make sense.

I'm not going to try to figure out GM's reasoning, but a Buick Park Avenue exists on the Statesman platform and is sold in China. They can sell them here, too. Import them for those Buick owners who want a large, RWD sedan.

[gagt02]

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What a beautiful lineup of cars Buick can be in NA...

[page2171]

Originally Posted by zete

It's already a Buick. It's not as if GM has to go and spend any money building it or the interior or any other aspect of this car. This car is already being sold as a Buick in China. There is no new DTS here or anywhere else on the planet.

The issue is why GM is picking EpII over Zeta for the DTS/DT7. The obvious reason is cost. But it might also be that EpII is more flexible especially if GM wants to put Voltec into the DTS/DT7. That would also make sense.

I'm not going to try to figure out GM's reasoning, but a Buick Park Avenue exists on the Statesman platform and is sold in China. They can sell them here, too. Import them for those Buick owners who want a large, RWD sedan.

That Park Ave would out class anything Cadillac sells here, except maybe the CTS...that is why we will never see it here as a Buick.

[96_impala_ss]

Originally Posted by mpsrent

Small cars don't need to be cheap cars and no one knows it or does it better than the Europeans. Even here in Canada we have a small Acura that isn't available in the U.S. The CSX has done well over the years for Acura as it has provided many Acura buyers with a way to get into their line up.

Your not talking bout the rebadged Honda Civic are you?

[zete]

Originally Posted by page2171

That Park Ave would out class anything Cadillac sells here, except maybe the CTS...that is why we will never see it here as a Buick.

So be it. If Cadillac doesn't have anything to compete at the moment, don't starve Buick. That's what GM has done historically. It's a totally retarded way to run a car company.

Instead, bring that over and provide Buick with a great lineup. And then go out and make Cadillacs lineup even better. Something Buick owners -- and others -- lust after.

I've long felt Cadillacs shouldn't be priced like tarted up Chevs but as luxury cars. Make them expensive. Make it something few can afford. After all, Cadillac will sell hundreds of thousands of cars, not millions. So not everyone should be able to afford one.

The reason you want someone to buy, own, and drive a Cadillac is because it's the ultimate in luxury from America. It shows you've made it. You've got the coin to put down on a car that's just out there. Otherwise, you'd drive what everyone else drives.

Cadillac needs to be ostentatious luxury. Buick understated luxury. Two different markets. And Cadillac can demand top coin if they once again do what they did decades ago instead of what they did over the recent past.

[page2171]

Originally Posted by zete

So be it. If Cadillac doesn't have anything to compete at the moment, don't starve Buick. That's what GM has done historically. It's a totally retarded way to run a car company.

Instead, bring that over and provide Buick with a great lineup. And then go out and make Cadillacs lineup even better. Something Buick owners -- and others -- lust after.

I've long felt Cadillacs shouldn't be priced like tarted up Chevs but as luxury cars. Make them expensive. Make it something few can afford. After all, Cadillac will sell hundreds of thousands of cars, not millions. So not everyone should be able to afford one.

The reason you want someone to buy, own, and drive a Cadillac is because it's the ultimate in luxury from America. It shows you've made it. You've got the coin to put down on a car that's just out there. Otherwise, you'd drive what everyone else drives.

Cadillac needs to be ostentatious luxury. Buick understated luxury. Two different markets. And Cadillac can demand top coin if they once again do what they did decades ago instead of what they did over the recent past.

No arguments here...I would love to see the Park Ave come here. I just know that GM won't let anyone out-class Cadillac just like they won't let anyone outperform Corvette. So in this case Buick and Buick fans get screwed.

[gmhashope]

I agree if Cadillac can't compete, too bad. Buick shouldn't get crappy cars because Cadillac has nothing to match the Park Avenue. Hopefully, this will change at GM.

[westtxsky]

Originally Posted by andy1234

Definately is the new Astra. GM will have to negotiate with Opel's new owners if they want it though.

GM owns everything Opel has done up until Opel is sold (if it were to be sold)

[cire_1wb]

Buick should carry the next gen Astra sedan and 5-door in the U.S. as the Buick Centieme. I don't think the current Astra 5-door would have cut it as a Buick, but this next gen has an upscale look that will actually help it be a good fit for Buick.

The idea of a Buick/Opel alignment seems perfect to me. Buick's lineup could be expanded in the following manner:
* Buick Vivace: Next gen Opel Tigra. I could see GM making the next gen a 2-seat coupe with a fixed hardtop (instead of the current TwinTop) given GM's current financial woes.
* Buick Velite: Next gen Opel Corsa 5-door.
* Buick Allegro: Next gen Opel Astra (or possibly Calibra?) coupe. I could see a fixed top coupe replacing the current Astra TwinTop given GM's current financial woes.
* Buick Centieme: Next gen Opel Astra sedan and 5-door.
* Buick Regal: Current gen Opel Insignia sedan. Could also use the "Insignia" name instead.
* Buick Riviera: I would love to see this nameplate return as a premium midsize coupe on LWB Epsilon. Chevrolet would get a SWB Epsilon based Monte Carlo coupe to compete with the Accord/Altima coupes.
* Buick Invicta: Upcoming 2010 Buick LaCrosse rechristened with a model name that better suits Buick's flagship sedan in North America.
* Buick Rendezvous: Next gen Opel Meriva MPV.
* Buick Bravura: Next gen Opel Zafira MPV.
* Buick Enclave: Midsize MPV?. The next gen could be morphed into a more carlike midsize MPV on the LWB Epsilon platform to better differentiate it from the Lambda based GMC Acadia CUV. This next gen version would combine the killer design cues of the current Lambda based Enclave with the next gen Opel MPV design language introduced on the recent Meriva Concept. I would even fit this with the reverse hinged rear passenger doors that were featured on the recent Meriva Concept (this design cue would be an exclusive on all of Buick's MPVs. Opel could also sell this as its flagship midsize MPV in Europe (maybe as a next gen Antara?).

If GM keeps Pontiac around, maybe GM could make them a sporty entry premium sub-brand and give them rebadged versions of the next gen Corsa/Astra 3-doors:
* Pontiac LeMans: Next gen Opel Corsa 3-door.
* Pontiac Tempest: Next gen Opel Astra 3-door.
OR
Pontiac could carry coupe products (which means Buick would lose the proposed Vivace, Allegro, and Riviera products listed above):
* Pontiac Fiero: Next gen Opel Tigra coupe.
* Pontiac Vivace: Next gen Opel Astra (or Calibra?) coupe.
* Pontiac Grand Prix: This would essentially be a 2-door version of the Insignia with a slick roofline inspired by the recent GTC Concept.

As for GMC?:
* GMC Safari: Compact CUV on SWB Theta. This compact CUV would be smaller and lighter than today's Vue/Antara and fitted with only a 4-cylinder engine to better position it below the upcoming LWB Theta based Terrain.
* GMC Terrain: Midsize CUV on LWB Theta.
* GMC Acadia: Fullsize CUV on Lambda.
* GMC Denali: Fullsize SUT with trick midgate. Basically this would be the next gen Avalanche taken upscale and made a GMC exclusive to give GMC something more upscale and exclusive than the Chevy Silverado (which would be the corporation's sole traditional fullsize truck). This product could derive some of its design inspiration from the recent Denali XT Concept. This product could be built on GM's next gen GMT truck platform or possibly on a modified version of Lambda.

Opel could help GM transform Buick into a cool and relevant premium volume brand with Pontiac and GMC playing supporting roles in the B-P-G premium dealer network. Buick still has some of its premium mojo left. It just needs some modern products and cool marketing to transform its stodgy, outdated image.

[zl-1]

Originally Posted by andy1234

Definately is the new Astra. GM will have to negotiate with Opel's new owners if they want it though.

Remember that in Korea, for example, the Korean Development Bank is GM DAT's minority shareholder. I think GM's strategy is to find a capital-only partner for Opel, such as a sovereign fund. that would mirror the ownership model of GM DAT: GM would still be in control of GME and its subsidiaries, except for SAAB which is looking for a partner of its own.

[SDVite]

Originally Posted by Xenon

Ahem...




So your G8 idea is kinda redundant eh? Besides by the looks of it,Buick NA will probably get what Buick China gets (Remember the 2010 Lacrosse is Chinese designed.)

Much rather have a sport version of this than a G8! And a in 2-door even better!!

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by gmhashope

I agree if Cadillac can't compete, too bad. Buick shouldn't get crappy cars because Cadillac has nothing to match the Park Avenue. Hopefully, this will change at GM.

Hold the phone kids. Wasn't it Buick dealers that all said no thanks to the Statesman/Veritas/Park Avenue?

They know best

[SaabKing]

Originally Posted by 96_impala_ss

Your not talking bout the rebadged Honda Civic are you?

All the CSX proofs is people are sheep.
I wonder what the mark up is on one of those over a civic? I am guessing it is not the 200 or so dollars the grill part costs.

Nice steelies too! Real up scale. I would think they were for snow tires but I don't see any snow.

[samkung]

Originally Posted by SaabKing

All the CSX proofs is people are sheep.
I wonder what the mark up is on one of those over a civic? I am guessing it is not the 200 or so dollars the grill part costs.

Nice steelies too! Real up scale. I would think they were for snow tires but I don't see any snow.

The funny thing is Japanese car companies are building US-spec car (which of course is not as good as what the japanese is getting), and in turn they export their Japanese-spec cars to the NA, and market them as premium cars