GMI Exclusive: SRX, Equinox To Get 3.0L HF V6

[nsap]

Originally Posted by wescoent

I like this dialogue.

For the record, 80%+ of Accords, Camrys, and Altimas are sold with their smooth and efficient I4, and this was BEFORE the fuel disaster this summer.

Aura, Malibu, and G6 should all ensure that they have an excellent I4-auto-6-speed available, and make sure a buyer can get all of the luxury equipment they want with it.

A V6 should not be a "value" option... it should be the high-tech sporty speedster option. If the I4 is built right and is smooth enough, most buyers won't want the V6 anyway.

OHV V6s are a losing proposition. You may list out all these great GM cars with OHV V6's, but these were all built when GM's sales were dropping like a rock, and MOST of those cars were sold to fleet buyers and rental agencies. If buyers don't know the difference, then what's wrong with offering a powerful I4, and leaving the V6 to the highest end version of the car?

For the most part I agree with you. However I do not agree that consumers notice the difference in OHV and DOHC. If you did not already know I drive a 2006 G6 GTP, I would almost promise that upon riding in my G6 you would not be able to tell me if you were riding in a 2006 with the OHV 3.9L or a 2007 with the DOHC 3.6L. Actually, I have stated before...the LZ9 3.9L sounds very much like a BMW I-6.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by nsap

For the most part I agree with you. However I do not agree that consumers notice the difference in OHV and DOHC. If you did not already know I drive a 2006 G6 GTP, I would almost promise that upon riding in my G6 you would not be able to tell me if you were riding in a 2006 with the OHV 3.9L or a 2007 with the DOHC 3.6L. Actually, I have stated before...the LZ9 3.9L sounds very much like a BMW I-6.

It's not purely an OHV vs OHC issue. How much power does the 3.9L produce? 240hp or so? Not going to cut it.

Second issue... Cadillac needs the 3.6L no matter what. I would bet, dollars to donuts, that it's cheaper for GM to take the variable cost hit per engine by offering only the 3.6L across the board, than it would be to offer TWO families of V6 engines (THREE, counting the 3.8L Buick engine), while benefiting from a small cost savings per engine on a variable basis.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by wescoent

I like this dialogue.

For the record, 80%+ of Accords, Camrys, and Altimas are sold with their smooth and efficient I4, and this was BEFORE the fuel disaster this summer.

Aura, Malibu, and G6 should all ensure that they have an excellent I4-auto-6-speed available, and make sure a buyer can get all of the luxury equipment they want with it.

A V6 should not be a "value" option... it should be the high-tech sporty speedster option. If the I4 is built right and is smooth enough, most buyers won't want the V6 anyway.

OHV V6s are a losing proposition. You may list out all these great GM cars with OHV V6's, but these were all built when GM's sales were dropping like a rock, and MOST of those cars were sold to fleet buyers and rental agencies. If buyers don't know the difference, then what's wrong with offering a powerful I4, and leaving the V6 to the highest end version of the car?

Exactly about 80% of Camry/Accord/Altima buyers are I-4 models which GM has a better option of now in the Malibu 2.4L 6A, leaving only about 20% of the owners available for "conquest" for GM with a DOHC V6. But the 3.6L V6 costs a fortune to make subsequently forcing GM to drop features accross the Malibu line resulting in lost sales to the 80% of I-4 Camry owners even though the Malibu has a better powertrain and MPG it is not even close on a "value" prospect compared to the Camry LE and SE. As a result GM loses thousands of potential sales to the Camry/Accord/Altima I-4 buyers by trying to go after the minority of buyers of V6 owners - many of which are VERY loyal Toyota/Honda/Nissan owners not likely to even look at a Malibu, putting GM in a very poor position in the overall market.

You guys need to forget all about HP and any other nonsense about DOHC V6 engines, it is about marketing and sales leading to profits and in today's environment survival.

By alienating MILLIONS of happy OHV V6 owners of GM CARS you insure your demise.

Why is this hard to understand???

You actuallly expect me to buy that it is a great idea to go after 100K Toyota/Honda/Nissan owners that MAY look at my V6 offering while not only ignoring but intentionally alienating MILLIONS of buyers that WANT to buy a GM car.

This market is about "value" and the car that gives the best value (price/features) with the highest MPG will own the midsize market.

GM can have that with the OHV V6 Malibu and had they pursued this originally would have sold more Malibu's overall which would have created a buzz among all Midsize buyers and without the cost penalty from teh DOHC V6 the Malibu would have been the hands down best value (Price/features/MPG) in the Midsize market and had better "conquest" sales to the 80% of Camry owners.

Again this is basic, basic, basic marketing - something GM is very poor at.

Toyota and Honda would have never ever alienated existing owners, especially when they represent their largest customer base.

GM has to start retaining the owners it already has.

[Exploder]

Uhm, so basically, an OHV V6 Malibu will cost thousands less than a DOHC V6 Malibu?

[crazyjkz]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

This is where you and GM are totally wrong and why GM may go bankrupt - did it ever occur to you that maybe, just maybe the millions of happy GM midsize owners of these V6 powered cars:
Century (100% OHV V6)
Regal (100% OHV V6)
LeSabre (100% OHV V6)
Park Ave (100% OHV V6)
Malibu (pre-2008) (100% OHV V6)
Impala (100% OHV V6)
Monte Carlo (100% OHV V6)
Grand Am (100% OHV V6)
Grand Prix (100% OHV V6)
Delta 88(100% OHV V6)
Cutlass (100% OHV V6)
Alero (100% OHV V6)

And these high percentage OHV V6 models
Intrigue
LaCrosse
Lucerne
G6

MAY actually want a OHV V6 powered Epsilon properly equipped with features they are willing to spend money on?

As long as GM goes out of their way to alienate existing owners they have no chance as this violates the first rule of marketing - take care of your loyal customers first since you know they will give you a chance.

I guarantee you that GM has lost thousands of 2008-2009 Maibu sales from the above mentioned owners when they discovered they powertrain they wanted was not available, GM finally got the car right (mostly) but shoots itself in the foot with the powertrain - Not Smart. And the lost sales dwarf any potential "conquest" sales to Import V6 buyers - again NOT SMART.

And before you get going on the DOHC nonsense, go to you nearest GM dealer and spend the entire weekend there and ask the sales reps how many potential buyers care about what is under the hood or if they are far more concerned about how much the car will cost them to buy and operate, until then spare us from your marketing ignorance.

Marketing ignorance? This coming from the same person that is suggesting that GM offer NO premium OHC 24-valve V6 option in their FWD midsize Epsilon models, which would give them absolutely NO CHANCE of competing with the premium OHC V6-powered Camry/Altima/Accord/Mazda 6? Yea sure...

It's people like you suggesting that GM insist on providing a primary powertrain that a majority of import buyers have no interest in or desire in owning(which is an unrefined and outdated OHV V6 with archaic 4-speed auto) that put GM's back up against the wall leading up to and shortly after the year 2000 and made a revitalization plan so immediately necessary that they fell short of the import competition for years and years.

Maybe if they had gotten rid of their uncompetitive OHV V6 motors years ago like they should have and stopped wasting millions of dollars on building these outdated motors years ago then maybe their High Feature V6s wouldn't have been so expensive to build. Maybe this has something to do with the funny coincidence that GM is currently building and using less and less of their High Value pushrod V6 motors now and at the same time their premium OHC High Feature V6s are becoming less and less expensive to build along with increased production capacity of their HF V6s.

You make it seem as if GM not offering a horribly outdated and unrefined OHV V6 is a major mistake when in reality GM offering more and more of what the majority of the buying public actually wants which is smooth, efficient, modern, and refined DOHC multi-valve I-4s and V6s is what will help them become as competitive as possible and actually give them a chance to steal sales from Toyota, Nissan, and Honda. Because I'll tell you right now that GM stands NO CHANCE of competing with the imports and winning over sales from potential Camcord and Altima buyers if they continued to offer OHV V6s, and I've spoken to many, many import buyers and every single one of them have told me they have absolutely NO INTEREST in owning any new vehicle with an OHV V6, plain and simple.

And right now for the time being it might seem like the sales numbers are not very confidence inspiring of the Aura, G6, and Malibu that use GM's DOHC Ecotec I-4s and High Feature V6s w/ 6-speed autos, but you have to understand that for years and years GM has continued on insisting to offer uncompetitive, unrefined, and outdated OHV V6/4-speed auto powertrains in a majority of its makes and models and over the years this has severely damaged GM's overall brand image and media/consumer reputation(particularly with import buyers), and it's going to take a little time for the buying public to see and understand that GM is finally beginning to offer solid, competitive DOHC multi-valve powertrains now in a majority of its makes and models such as the 3.6HF DI, 2.4 Ecotec, and 3.0HF DI along with the new 6-speed autos.

Once the buying public sees that GM is making a serious and valiant effort in offering modern, refined, and competitive DOHC multi-valve I-4s and V6s along with efficient 6-speed autos in a majority of its makes and models while eliminating the uncompetitive OHV V6s/4-speed autos from their makes and models then sales numbers will most definitely improve by a wide margin, especially when the import buyers catch on to GM's newfound powertrain goodness. But it's not going to happen overnight however GM's brand image will improve as long as they continue to offer what the buying public wants which is exactly what they have been doing.

And you would be surprised at how more and more potential buyers are becoming more interested and concerned with what's under the hood of their new vehicle, because I've talked to numerous GM salespeople and they have all agreed that as time goes by they've noticed more and more potential buyers that come into their showrooms asking more detailed questions on the engines and transmissions used in the GM makes and models they are interested in.

[Rockeye7]

What is it you want to know about the 3.0 L HFV6 . I have a friend that works with G.M. . One thing I did notice on your site in the engine line up . The plants they are built at are in accurate in some cases . My friend told me that when I showed him your site .

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by Rockeye7

What is it you want to know about the 3.0 L HFV6 . I have a friend that works with G.M. . One thing I did notice on your site in the engine line up . The plants they are built at are in accurate in some cases . My friend told me that when I showed him your site .

Will it get turbocharged version??

[crazyjkz]

Originally Posted by Rockeye7

What is it you want to know about the 3.0 L HFV6 . I have a friend that works with G.M. . One thing I did notice on your site in the engine line up . The plants they are built at are in accurate in some cases . My friend told me that when I showed him your site .

Is the 3.0HF DI V6 cheaper to build than the 3.6HF? And what kind of estimated city and highway gas mileage should the 3.0HF get?

[rudebwoyjohn]

Originally Posted by mkwelbornjr

So the GM OHV V6's are almost dead?

Of course, unless someone can make those perform better than these fresh motors,

[rudebwoyjohn]

what's the problem with having the same motor throughout the class.. Nissan does it (VQ35) with out much issues as long as it run down the road like a bat out of hell. Who cares if everything GM makes has one. it just brings the price down even further.. since parts are readily available... Besides the Majority of Import buyer like my-self.. want performace not history.. most new car buyers want exactly that a NEW CAR.. not a new shell or new styling... they want a new car with new options and new performace... not what was the best 10 years ago..

i mean my max is almost twelve and it still performs good thanks to the solid v6 and a few tweaks to the mapping.. I was testing an impala a few months back and because i wanted something newer... but i just went ahead to modding my max beacuse it was one cheaper and two i got the same performace as an 06 impala ls with costom options..

[avro206]

die OHV 60 degree engines....your time is over

By ramping up production of all HF V6s the costs should come down