GMI Exclusive: LaCrosse Engines, Details Emerge

[lam]

Originally Posted by 377Z

I may have missed it, but I don't think he actually said that. It looks like he merely pointed out that claiming EPII will be class leading has no basis, and he's right.

May? You have miss it:

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

I am not complaining about EPII - I am merely saying that since GM hasn't been able to build a standout midsize sedan on EPI - what makes you think they can leapfrog the CamCord category and beat the segment leaders at the entry luxury game? I am sure the LaCrosse will be nice - as I have said - probably the best Buick sedan they have ever produced...I just think it won't be better than the segment leaders..

[Dr. Show-Me]

This forum would have very few posts if it was based on what people actually know. It's more like 85-95% opinions.
We do know that GM's latest vehicles are much better than past efforts. They are overweight but class-leading in many ways.
Based on those trends, future GM vehicles are likely to be good vehicles, and slightly overweight, this vehicle included.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by nsap

You assuming that the new LaCrosse is not going to be class leading is no different than those that assume it will be, so stop preaching to those that are making assumptions. You're doing the same thing!

History, unfortunately, is on boblutzfan's side with this. The Enclave is Buick's lone standout product of at least the past decade.

Lightning may strike twice. But as a GM fan, I'm not getting my hopes up.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by lam

May? You have miss it:

That is not a claim of fact, it is an expression of opinion. He also offers historical evidence as a basis for his opinion. I don't think it warrants accusing him of hating GM, or wishing they do not succeed, especially when he actually stated otherwise.

[nsap]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

History, unfortunately, is on boblutzfan's side with this. The Enclave is Buick's lone standout product of at least the past decade.

Lightning may strike twice. But as a GM fan, I'm not getting my hopes up.

I wouldn't have my hopes up either if I didn't know already what sort of car the new LaCrosse is going to be.

Malibu, Enclave, Acadia, CTS, 900's....recent history is working against boblutzfan's hypothesis.

[377Z]

While those are all great cars that are highly competetive in their segments, I think the only clear class leader would be the 900's, possibly also the lambda's (not familiar with that segment).

[lam]

Originally Posted by 377Z

That is not a claim of fact, it is an expression of opinion. He also offers historical evidence as a basis for his opinion. I don't think it warrants accusing him of hating GM, or wishing they do not succeed, especially when he actually stated otherwise.

Do I have to being up his past posts trashing the Cruze on GMI? If you don't think he hates GM , then you need set of eye glass.

And yes , you did miss it.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by lam

Do I have to being up his past posts trashing the Cruze on GMI? If you don't think he hates GM , then you need set of eye glass.

And yes , you did miss it.

Since your reading comprehension is as bad as your grammar, there's no point in continuing this. You can't even grasp the fundimentals of the conversation.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by nsap

I wouldn't have my hopes up either if I didn't know already what sort of car the new LaCrosse is going to be.

Malibu, Enclave, Acadia, CTS, 900's....recent history is working against boblutzfan's hypothesis.

They may be good products, but it seems the Enclave, Acadia, and CTS are having quality problems according to CR and TrueDelta.

GM has been too much of a hit and miss when it comes to the quality of their vehicles....

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Hitman1970

No one has suggested yet that the engine choices for LaCrosse leave room for a 4 cylinder SWB Epsilon Regal for Buick.

Otherwise I also agree with those who said that there is a full line of mid-size engine choices when the G6 line is included.

LaCrosse seems to start in the LTZ level territory of Malibu, which it should, and goes up from there.

Good points, the LaCrosse is based on the LWB Epsilon and should start at just under $25K and must have features like Fog lights, Power tilt/telescoping steering wheel and 8-way power seats with memory as standard equipment - no more rental car models. The current LaCrosse lower than expected sales are due to lack of standard equipment over what engine is under the hood, luxury buyers demand high feature content where they interface with them on a daily basis and the features mentioned (along with a few others) are EXPECTED and assumed to be on any car in this segment.

As for engines the 3.0L must deliver 30 MPG as this would be more important to potential buyers and a better selling feature than the power, just hope the cost of the 3.0L does not force GM into "rental car models".

The only engine below the 3.0L (if any) should be the 3500 V6 since it has the torque needed and could be tuned for 30+ MPG that Buick owners will buy in a well equipped CX model as will conquest buyers if the value (features/price/MPG) is there. The 4-cylinder as you point out that is what the Malibu, G6 and Regal are for.

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by lam

The new Lacrosse is better than the Acrua TL and Lexus ES.

How do you know that? Have you seen a production ready 2010 LaCrosse?

Originally Posted by lam

For you it isn't about the Lacrosse being better than The TL and ES, You don't want the Lacrosse to be better than the ES and TL.

Wrong. I would love for it to be better. I just don't expect it to be. Remember when the Enclave was introduced Bob Lutz claimed it would come with a leather wrapped dash and that a V8 model was in the pipeline? Well none of that happened. Now we have what is a very good CUV - but it was less than promised. And that is on Buick's best product in the past decade. Until I (or anyone else) see the production ready LaCrosse - it would be foolish to say it will be better than the current class leaders.

Originally Posted by 377Z

That is not a claim of fact, it is an expression of opinion. He also offers historical evidence as a basis for his opinion. I don't think it warrants accusing him of hating GM, or wishing they do not succeed, especially when he actually stated otherwise.

Thank you!

I would love for Buick to succeed. I just think it is far too early to start saying they have a segment leader...for a car none of us have seen a production ready example. GM's track record for midsize sedan is not that great. The best sedans GM have put out in my life time are the current Malibu and Aura - yet they still are not as good as they could have been. Quite simply - GM has not "pulled out all the stops" yet on a midsize sedan. So - until I see them "pull out all the stops" on a regular sedan (i.e. not a V series product or the Corvette) then I will be sceptical of their future success. Lexus pulls out all the stops on their product and it shows. GM doesn't. Plain and simple. Again - I want GM to succeed - I just don't want to blindly trust future unseen product and claim it a success.

Originally Posted by lam

Do I have to being up his past posts trashing the Cruze on GMI? If you don't think he hates GM , then you need set of eye glass.

And yes , you did miss it.

I don't hate GM!!! Hello?! I am pissed that GM has a potentially segment leading product in the Cruze and the management in Detroit have elected to deny us access to the car because they aren't done with the Cobalt. When you are dying (and GM is) then you need to get all your best products out on the table. The fact that GM has the Cruze in the wings but won't sell it in their home market is crazy. The Cobalt is old and very long in the tooth - and doesn't compete well against the other vehicles in the segment. The Mazda3 is coming out in advance of the Cruze...as will other compact entries. By the time Cruze arives it may no longer be segment leading...that is not hating GM. It is being frustrated that GM won't sell their best product in the States!!!

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

They may be good products, but it seems the Enclave, Acadia, and CTS are having quality problems according to CR and TrueDelta.

GM has been too much of a hit and miss when it comes to the quality of their vehicles....

And their midsize sedan entries fail to offer features that nearly every other brand does. Some may say, well the LaCrosse will so who cares...but they miss the point. The LaCross is taking on the price point of the Lexus ES350, Nissan Maxima, Volkswagen Passat, Acura TL and Hyundai Genesis. All of those are very high feature vehicles. Since none of us have seen a production ready 2010 LaCrosse (not to mention the 2010 competition) we don't know how it will really measure up. But for GM's current track record - they fall behind. Not only as you mention in continued spotty quality and high fleet sales but in the features and resale that people look for today. Such as:
- dual zone automatic A/C
- Keyless ignition
- DVD based/screen navigation system
- folding rear armrest
- turn signals on the side mirrors
- HID headlamps
- integrated IP

I am sure that GM will include many of these features on the LaCrosse - but look at the competition - if they don't it will be a miserable failure. The sad thing is that most of the midsize competition from Mazda, Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Nissan have the features listed above as options if not standard on some models. It is because GM has not taken the midsize segment seriously that I am not willing to call the LaCrosse the segment best as others want to do.

[lam]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

I don't hate GM!!! Hello?! I am pissed that GM has a potentially segment leading product in the Cruze and the management in Detroit have elected to deny us access to the car because they aren't done with the Cobalt. When you are dying (and GM is) then you need to get all your best products out on the table. The fact that GM has the Cruze in the wings but won't sell it in their home market is crazy. The Cobalt is old and very long in the tooth - and doesn't compete well against the other vehicles in the segment. The Mazda3 is coming out in advance of the Cruze...as will other compact entries. By the time Cruze arives it may no longer be segment leading...that is not hating GM. It is being frustrated that GM won't sell their best product in the States!!!

GM management has not denied anybody the Cruze ,the Cruze is coming one year late because of the 1.4 Turbo 4 Cylinder engine.

[lam]

Originally Posted by nsap

You assuming that the new LaCrosse is not going to be class leading is no different than those that assume it will be, so stop preaching to those that are making assumptions. You're doing the same thing!

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

seriously that I am not willing to call the LaCrosse the segment best as others want to do.

I think nsap hit it out of the park
.

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by lam

GM management has not denied anybody the Cruze ,the Cruze is coming one year late because of the 1.4 Turbo 4 Cylinder engine.

But other markets are getting it a year before we do...just so GM can continue to sell the Cobalt...

[lam]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

But other markets are getting it a year before we do...just so GM can continue to sell the Cobalt...

It looks like you don't understand jack,

As I typed before, the Cruze coming one year later , not because of the Cobalt , but because of the 1.4 Turbo 4 Cylinder Engine.

The plant that makes the engine has not even been completed let.