GMI Exclusive: LaCrosse Engines, Details Emerge

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by CharlotteFirebird

Really? Have you driven the Genisis? Have you hopped on a plane so you could drive the Chinese Park Ave?

Yes I have driven a Genesis - have you? And I agree with the reviews. It is an incredible sedan. Better than anything near its price point. The V8 is incredible. Transmission very precise and smooth. And the interior...it blows away anything GM has except the CTS.

As to the Chinese Park Avenue...no I haven't driven it or seen it. The Chineses SLS is supposed to be pretty nice too...but neither are available (nor will be) on our shores. And if the Park Aveneu were to make it stateside it would be decontented. Hell, even Cadillac can't get the SLS interior on a sedan that is sold in both markets.

The Genesis is better in ride/handling dynamics, power train and interior than just about any sedan any american manufacturer sells today. There are some exceptions yes, but they are vastly more expensive. Those that discount the Genesis are foolish.

[boblutzfan]

Folks, the only reason I bring up the Genesis is that some people are making claims that this new Lacrosse (which will probably be Buick's best American sedan to date) will be better than the new class leaders even "taking it to them". We haven't even seen the full car. And to say that just because Buick has a premium sedan in another market that this one will be class leading is crazy. The Genesis is on sale now and available to buy at a real value. It is far and away better than the similarly priced Lucerne in every way. In fact - I would suspect that even on a quality perspective the Genesis is on par with the Lucerne. To think that GM in its current cash crunch could bring the Park Aveneue here with the Chinese content is foolish.

Plain and simple - the LaCrosse looks good. But the fact that Huyndai sells more luxurious sedans than Buick does right now is a sign of the times...

[member12]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

But it's still just a Hyundai.

And Buick is such a well regarded brand?

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by member12

And Buick is such a well regarded brand?

The folks that bought the old Park Avenue, Lesabres and Centurys are dying off. Those folks were the ones that kept Buick alive and were the folks that rated the brand so high on reliability surveys. Buick needs a home run on the new LaCrosse if it has any hope of keeping the Enclave momentum going. Right now the Lucerne and LaCrosse have no brand equity - and the reputation of the Lesabre and Park Avenue are fast fading.

[lam]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

Folks, the only reason I bring up the Genesis is that some people are making claims that this new Lacrosse (which will probably be Buick's best American sedan to date) will be better than the new class leaders even "taking it to them". We haven't even seen the full car. And to say that just because Buick has a premium sedan in another market that this one will be class leading is crazy. The Genesis is on sale now and available to buy at a real value. It is far and away better than the similarly priced Lucerne in every way. In fact - I would suspect that even on a quality perspective the Genesis is on par with the Lucerne. To think that GM in its current cash crunch could bring the Park Aveneue here with the Chinese content is foolish.

Plain and simple - the LaCrosse looks good. But the fact that Huyndai sells more luxurious sedans than Buick does right now is a sign of the times...

I don't know why you being up the Genesis which has nothing to do with this thread. If you wanted to talk about the Genesis you could have made a non-news thread.

Saying the new Lacrosse is Class leading isn't ''crazy'' at all.

I think you hate GM, and want to bitch about something. Early this year you bitch about Epsilon I , now you is already bitching about Epsilon II.

[Dr. Show-Me]

If a driver can't keep a 74" wide vehicle within a 96-108" wide road, he/she shouldn't be driving!Also, I suspect the differences in horsepower among the DI 3.6L engines is due to exhaust systems and/or GM's decision to down-rate some engine's horsepower.

[gmhashope]

Ok, Hyundai has one sedan that just came out that's more luxurious than a Buick. I personally think the new LaCrosse will be more luxurious than the Genesis.

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by lam

I don't know why you being up the Genesis which has nothing to do with this thread. If you wanted to talk about the Genesis you could have made a non-news thread.

Saying the new Lacrosse is Class leading isn't ''crazy'' at all.

I think you hate GM, and want to bitch about something. Early this year you bitch about Epsilon I , now you is already bitching about Epsilon II.

I don't hate GM. In fact - they are my favorite car company in general. I just hate their half a$$ed products of late. I brought up the Genesis because some (without even seeing a complete LaCrosse) were claiming the still not on sale LaCrosse would "take it to" the class leaders. GM has yet to consistently do that in any category outside of the full size Truck Market. Consistently being the key phrase. Some folks went so far as to say the new FWD based LaCrosse would compete with the RWD based Lexus GS. Others even brought up the Chinese market only Park Avenue. GM can't even successfuly give us the premium interior on the STS (a car available in both China and the US) much less bring over the Park Avenue from China in its China form.

I bring up the Genesis because it is better and more importantly AVAILABLE today when compared to this still China only Park Avenue. GM has announced no plans to bring the Park Avenue to the states. In fact, they have worked to kill off their DOHC V8 engine program which makes the idea of a full size RWD Buick (much less Cadillac) a dream at this point.

People love to hate other brands or to blindly say some future product will "take it to" the established segment leaders. These are foolish and shortsighted comments. This is the same attitude that persists in GM management right now. GM has yet in my lifetime (34 years) to produce a midsize sedan that was class leading and a sales champion. The fact that they could then go on to produce a FWD based entry level luxury sedan that was class leading without mastering the midsize CamCord segment first is laughable at best. But for these claims to be made without even seeing the car is crazy.

GM has let Cadillac rot on the vine of late as they starve it for future product outside of the CTS program, have not yet delivered on a truly class leading feature loaded midsize sedan, delayed what could be a class leading compact sedan and on their competitive products (think Lambda, CTS, G8, etc.) bring products that are horribly over weight.

I don't hate GM - I just refuse to blindly praise their attempts to compete on the world stage. I would love to see them come from behind and produce something along the level of the Genesis. But right now, not even the STS has the features and powertrain to compete. So why would Buick?

And if anyone talking about Buicks doesn't think the Genesis doesn't belong in the conversation is crazy. The Genesis is a threat to the new LaCrosse and current Lucerne from a price/feature/luxury perspective.

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by gmhashope

Ok, Hyundai has one sedan that just came out that's more luxurious than a Buick. I personally think the new LaCrosse will be more luxurious than the Genesis.

The Azera is more luxurious than the current LaCrosse when optioned similarly...

And I am just curious - what are you basing your thinking on to say that the new LaCrosse will be more luxurious than the Genesis. And are you talking the V6 Genesis only or the V8 as well.

Keep in mind, the Genesis overlaps the LaCrosse price point.

[lam]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

I don't hate GM. In fact - they are my favorite car company in general. I just hate their half a$$ed products of late. I brought up the Genesis because some (without even seeing a complete LaCrosse) were claiming the still not on sale LaCrosse would "take it to" the class leaders. GM has yet to consistently do that in any category outside of the full size Truck Market. Consistently being the key phrase. Some folks went so far as to say the new FWD based LaCrosse would compete with the RWD based Lexus GS. Others even brought up the Chinese market only Park Avenue. GM can't even successfuly give us the premium interior on the STS (a car available in both China and the US) much less bring over the Park Avenue from China in its China form.

I bring up the Genesis because it is better and more importantly AVAILABLE today when compared to this still China only Park Avenue. GM has announced no plans to bring the Park Avenue to the states. In fact, they have worked to kill off their DOHC V8 engine program which makes the idea of a full size RWD Buick (much less Cadillac) a dream at this point.

People love to hate other brands or to blindly say some future product will "take it to" the established segment leaders. These are foolish and shortsighted comments. This is the same attitude that persists in GM management right now. GM has yet in my lifetime (34 years) to produce a midsize sedan that was class leading and a sales champion. The fact that they could then go on to produce a FWD based entry level luxury sedan that was class leading without mastering the midsize CamCord segment first is laughable at best. But for these claims to be made without even seeing the car is crazy.

GM has let Cadillac rot on the vine of late as they starve it for future product outside of the CTS program, have not yet delivered on a truly class leading feature loaded midsize sedan, delayed what could be a class leading compact sedan and on their competitive products (think Lambda, CTS, G8, etc.) bring products that are horribly over weight.

I don't hate GM - I just refuse to blindly praise their attempts to compete on the world stage. I would love to see them come from behind and produce something along the level of the Genesis. But right now, not even the STS has the features and powertrain to compete. So why would Buick?

And if anyone talking about Buicks doesn't think the Genesis doesn't belong in the conversation is crazy. The Genesis is a threat to the new LaCrosse and current Accord from a price/feature/luxury perspective.

First the STS is on the way out , and once again you bring something that has Zero to do with this thread.
The Genesis is not a threat to the Accord
at all.

GM has not delyed the Cruze , and you have already trash the Cruze ,and that's also something that has nothing to do with this thread.

Once again the Genesis has zero to do with this thread and that's not ''crazy'', that's fact.

Getting back on topic , You bitch about Epsilon I and already bitching about Epsilon II.

The Epsilon II is class leading , and just like with the Delta II , and you don't want to admit it because you hate GM.

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by lam

First the STS is on the way out , and once again you bring something that has Zero to do with this thread.
The Genesis is not a threat to the Accord
at all.

GM has not delyed the Cruze , and you have already trash the Cruze ,and that's also something that has nothing to do with this thread.

Once again the Genesis has zero to do with this thread.

Getting back on topic , You bitch about Epsilon I and already bitching about Epsilon II.

The Accord was a mistake...I meant Lucerne...my post has been corrected.

GM hasn't announced production delays for the Cruze - but they are delaying the introduction in the US because they want to to continue to sell the lame duck Cobalt another year - instead of getting ahead of the competition.

EP I - has its flaws - noted.

I am not complaining about EPII - I am merely saying that since GM hasn't been able to build a standout midsize sedan on EPI - what makes you think they can leapfrog the CamCord category and beat the segment leaders at the entry luxury game? I am sure the LaCrosse will be nice - as I have said - probably the best Buick sedan they have ever produced...I just think it won't be better than the segment leaders.

And yes...the Genesis is in the price range of the LaCrosse/Lucerne and should be taken seriously by GM and the folks on this thread. It simply blows away the current LaCrosse/Lucerne in every way - for the same or less money.

[boblutzfan]

Originally Posted by lam

The Epsilon II is class leading , and just like with the Delta II , and you don't want to admit it because you hate GM.

EP II isn't out yet...so it is hard to say it is class leading.

And no - I don't hate GM. I just am not satisfied with their current product/planning.

The CTS, CTS-V and Corvette are incredible products and the Enclave/Acadia are pretty good. But for mainstream buyers GM lags behind the competition.

[nsap]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

I am not complaining about EPII - I am merely saying that since GM hasn't been able to build a standout midsize sedan on EPI - what makes you think they can leapfrog the CamCord category and beat the segment leaders at the entry luxury game? I am sure the LaCrosse will be nice - as I have said - probably the best Buick sedan they have ever produced...I just think it won't be better than the segment leaders.

You assuming that the new LaCrosse is not going to be class leading is no different than those that assume it will be, so stop preaching to those that are making assumptions. You're doing the same thing!

[lam]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

The Accord was a mistake...I meant Lucerne...my post has been corrected.

GM hasn't announced production delays for the Cruze - but they are delaying the introduction in the US because they want to to continue to sell the lame duck Cobalt another year - instead of getting ahead of the competition.

EP I - has its flaws - noted.

I am not complaining about EPII - I am merely saying that since GM hasn't been able to build a standout midsize sedan on EPI - what makes you think they can leapfrog the CamCord category and beat the segment leaders at the entry luxury game? I am sure the LaCrosse will be nice - as I have said - probably the best Buick sedan they have ever produced...I just think it won't be better than the segment leaders.

And yes...the Genesis is in the price range of the LaCrosse/Lucerne and should be taken seriously by GM and the folks on this thread. It simply blows away the current LaCrosse/Lucerne in every way - for the same or less money.

Once again GM has not dealyed the Cruze , The Cruze comes out one year later, because the Cruze U.S launch is getting the 1.4 Turbo 4 cylinder engine.

The current Lacrosse is near the end , so bring it up that doesn't matter.
The new Lacrosse is better than the Acrua TL and Lexus ES.
For you it isn't about the Lacrosse being better than The TL and ES, You don't want the Lacrosse to be better than the ES and TL.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by nsap

You assuming that the new LaCrosse is not going to be class leading is no different than those that assume it will be, so stop preaching to those that are making assumptions. You're doing the same thing!

I may have missed it, but I don't think he actually said that. It looks like he merely pointed out that claiming EPII will be class leading has no basis, and he's right.