BEHIND THE DECISION: GM Executive Explains Why Pontiac Died; Why Buick Will Succeed

[KingElvis]

Originally Posted by Masospaghetti

I think it was unwise to kill Pontiac...they should have kept it as a true niche product.

They let it languish with the G3, G5, and G6. The G5 and G6 had untapped potential (G5 could have been positioned upmarket from the Cobalt, with the 2.4 HO and 2.0 SIDI Turbo motors only, but it was instead positioned BELOW the Cobalt - wtf? The G6 would have been competitive as well if was given a true MCE with a new interior and better powertrain options. Either the 2.4 DI or 3.5 V6 as a base motor with 6-speed auto and manual, with the 3.6 DI optional - not like these combos haven't been seen before in other GM products)

I don't see how keeping Pontiac as a niche with 2 or 3 (at most) vehicles would keep them unprofitable. They don't need their own dealerships. Hell, don't even advertise them much - and make them available at all dealerships. The Solstice and G8 would have been a good start. It would position the brand much like how Scion is used for Toyota.

Especially the G8, since its just a rebadged Commodore sold down under, could be sold here in low quantities and still justified, even if the price was relatively high.

It seems like I miss Pontiac more with each passing day.

The thing is, they got every chance in the world to succeed, not least of which was the G8 - but then they had the GTO, and Solstice too.

People do not think Pontiac was more valuable than Chevy - let alone BMW, which Lutz, in his delirium, thought was a target demographic. BMW is the fo-shizzle.

Also consider that Pontiac was actually on the chopping block in the mid 1950's. It was a kind of underdog that succeeded because of plucky Delorean and Knudsen's impassioned efforts.

Just how many middlebrow brands can one company sustain? Probably one is enough.

[Rick_VT]

Does anyone know what the law is that prevents them taking one car to another franchise??

[Ambalanche]

Nothing new here...
What I would've actually like to have read was an explaination of how they thought Pontiac could succeed with no investment and sorry rebadges of Chevy's worst products...

[blue3231]

Originally Posted by Perian

Finally, there are the legal reasons, Wilkinson said. "There are strict laws about taking a car out of one franchise and putting it in another. That's why, when we closed Oldsmobile, there were some cars we would like to have continued but couldn't."

Really? Strict laws? Didn't they essentially take the Bravada and turn it into the Rainier?

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by Rick_VT

Does anyone know what the law is that prevents them taking one car to another franchise??

In this case, I'm guessing she was referring to the bankruptcy conditions.

In other words, if Solstice/Sky were transferred to Old GM (liquidation), those products no longer belong to GM. They can't continue to use an asset that was sold via the 363 sale.

[GMFAN85]

Originally Posted by avro206

GM is solely responsible for Pontiac being unprofitable.

G5 was a pathetic version of the Cobalt. Which GM never did do an MCE on.

G6 was badly outdated

Grand Prix ditto

I'd like to hear why the G8 can't be done up as a Chevy and continue on. The new SDI V6 engines improved fuel economy.

Nobody here or at GM is denying that. However, there are still people here who think Buick deserved to be cut when it clearly was in better shape and had more promise than Pontiac.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by K-1

A "stable full of FWD appliances" worked just fine for Toyota/Lexus. In fact, they were raking in quite a bit of dough. With Chevy picking up the volume, each Buick they sell is like printing money.

FWD is not what worked. Toyota is Hype on Quality and Reliability. There is nothing more to it.

[04bonnie]

Not sure if I agree with the statement that the Solstice and Sky didn't succeed, but the Mazda Miata will, it's about updating to the design that made the Miata a best seller all along. I think if the Solstice got an update every 3 years, it would succeed.

As for the Enclave being "long in the tooth" as someone pointed out, I think it too should receive updates to keep it fresh, but it's only in the 3rd model year, so NOT much they can do just yet. However, the second model year saw a bunch of updates, 3rd year has a few, next year probably nothing, and I bet we'll see a very early 2012 model year release of the 2013....so the 2012's will not be out there very long at all....kind of like what happened to the 2000 LeSabre, the 99's were only out for a few months, then the 2000 was available in early spring of 99.

[steinravnik]

Right, but the real question is why did GM let Pontiac deteriorate to the point of unprofitability?

Pontiac started going downhill in the late 90's with stuff like the Aztek. I liked the looks of the Grand Am when it got redesigned in 2000, but when I went to look at it, I was really let down at the fact that the 3.4 V6 only made 175 HP. Outside of the LS1 and truck engines, GM's mainstream car engines left a lot to be desired in the 90's.

[zete]

As sales declined for GM GM needed to make Pontiac into a niche performance brand. Instead, it still tried to keep it a volume brand. That was a mistake. Further confounding the issue was introducing vans and SUVs and other vehicles that just aren't very Pontiac.

And I'm sure the dealer network had something to do with this, too. I'm sure they would not have been interested in making Pontiac a niche back in 2001 or so, when Pontiac needed to do the change by. Instead, it soldiered on as Lutz et al tried to figure something out.

Look at it this way, would the dealers have accepted dropping everything at Pontiac except the G8 and Solstice in 2007 while they waited for a G6 on Alpha? I don't think so. I recall talking to a couple of Pontiac dealers after I picked up my G8 and they talked more about losing the Vibe than the other vehicles. They actually wished GM had kept Pontiac so they could keep selling Vibes! They loved the G8 but the Vibe sold more volume, thus was higher on their priority list.

In my opinion the outcome was inevitable.

[A.J.]

I still hold strong to the notion that Holden should sell a streamlined Commodore range in the US and Canada under the Holden nameplate. Holden is already a global brand to begin with. If Buick can be successful outside its home market, then Holden can too.

My argument has been shot down by various people because Holden has no brand history in the US. Buick didn't have any brand history in China, did it? Look how that turned out!

Along with a civilian range, Holden could also end up being a big fleet winner for GM North America. The Chevrolet Caprice PPV is just a rebadged Holden Caprice anyway. You could sell both the smaller Commodore and the larger Statesman for Police duty, and the latter for Taxi duty.

[ejfx]

Originally Posted by A.J.

Holden should sell a streamlined Commodore range in the US and Canada under the Holden nameplate.

I think the last thing Noth America needs is another brand

The decision to kill Pontiac was made before the decision to get rid of Saturn, Saab, Hummer...The wheels to kill Pontiac were already rolling too fast to stop its death at that time

[graycav56]

Originally Posted by Perian

Link: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...73352857437812
Finally, there are the legal reasons, Wilkinson said. "There are strict laws about taking a car out of one franchise and putting it in another. That's why, when we closed Oldsmobile, there were some cars we would like to have continued but couldn't."

Agree with others here. This just doesn't seem right. They were making all kinds of decisions, and under bankruptcy you can do just about anything. I mean, look how they changed categories of claimants, trumped state franchise laws, etc.

I just cannot believe that if there was THE car to save the new General Motors, there wouldn't have been some way to keep it.

[Masospaghetti]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Because the G8 costs money to federalize to meet US standards for safety standards.

And WHAT would a Pontiac G8 bring to the table that an identical Chevrolet Lumina with nothing changed but the badges wouldn't?

It could easily command a higher price since it doesn't have to fall within Chevy's tiered structure, and because of its exclusive nature.

I'm not saying it would sell in droves, but I think its a unique opportunity that no other manufacturer has. And if it were a Chevy, it would have to be federalized as well.

[2012Aveo]

The only reason Buick was kept is because of it's popularity and high sales in China. Pontiac at least had some enthusiasts left in North America.