BEHIND THE DECISION: GM Executive Explains Why Pontiac Died; Why Buick Will Succeed

[johnstarnes]

I would love to see the sketches and models of Pontiacs that were under development that show the "new look" for Pontiac that some time ago Welburn said was being devised.

[DieToyota1978]

thats why they should have made it a niche brand G8,GTO or firebird and or G6 or bring back the Grand AM name plate for the G6 ...no G3,G5 or torrent crap or Vibe for that matter...3 models would have been perfect...

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by member12

Yeah....but deep down I wish the G8 would find a home at Chevrolet.....At least the big ass middle eastern Caprice.

And who didn't like the Solstice (or the sky?). Btw the G8 and the Solstice, I'm convinced that since Pontiac's best cars didn't sell well, the brand had negative equity.

I would like to see the Commodore back in the states as well, but I'm not sure as what.

[GMOwner]

Originally Posted by Perian

Pontiac had been unprofitable for several years.

GM had been unprofitable for years as well.

Sheer PR-ese.

GM needs a sporty alternative and Cadillac shouldn't be it. GM has been ruining their brands (except Chevy) for decades.

Cadillac should be defining the future of cars. Pontiac and Buick should leverage that as 2nd tier automobiles that compete with some of the best in the industry. Chevy should be their cash cow and utilize their most reliable technology invented in Cadillac and mass-produced in the Pontiac and Buick to compete with the most reliable brands in the industry.

GM defines what the brand names mean--not the consumer...

[skylark68]

Pontiac started heading downhill since GM corporate went FWD (and I argue GM as a whole started going downhill). That's all there is to it. Then they became little more than body cladded FWD econo-boxes that were barely a step up from Chevrolet.

[jaywestfall]

Pontiac clearly was the one left standing out when the musical chairs music stopped (i.e. no funding/money).

It is a crime that we are back where we started on RWD performance and the Holden line in the US. Don't those cars look great, and why the hell can't we buy them in North America? Where is the US Commodore, the US Ute, etc....

[civilzues]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

I would love to see the sketches and models of Pontiacs that were under development that show the "new look" for Pontiac that some time ago Welburn said was being devised.

Lets start nagging NSAP to get them!!

[Masospaghetti]

Originally Posted by PeteM143

I'm really sick of hearing about niche brands/models. It's like the 'halo' car. None of them every make any money. We don't have 3 carmakers trying to win the same customers, it's more like 15. Every brand's gotta pay the rent, otherwise it goes the way of the Dodo.

Am i'm sick of hearing why a true "niche brand" can't make money. Sell them at ALL GM dealerships as a low volume product using platforms developed for international markets (i.e., G8) - no development costs, no dealer costs. Don't advertise - let the product become known on its own. If they sell slow, who cares? The international market has the economy of scale that allows this to work.

Someone please explain to me why Pontiac, even with a single vehicle (G8), couldn't be sold at all GM dealers. WHY would it be a money pit?

[goatgary]

Originally Posted by skylark68

Pontiac started heading downhill since GM corporate went FWD (and I argue GM as a whole started going downhill). That's all there is to it. Then they became little more than body cladded FWD econo-boxes that were barely a step up from Chevrolet.

Apparently you didn't notice but cladding disappeared with the Aztek.
Also there aren't enough real enthusiasts who believe the world isn't right without RWD to profitably support a Division based on which wheels are driving.

I would venture to say that 75% of the buying public in the mid to low price range market has no clue whether their car is FWD or not. The people that do know tend to be Northerners who perfer it because of snow regardless of whether you think it helps traction or not. As good as the G8 was, RWD is not what primarily sold the car. As a matter of fact it was not doing much better than the recent GTO until they started putting $6,000 on the hood. Then some "enthusiasts" started coming out of the woodwork....but not enough to warrant converting it to a Chevy. Zero profit at the price point it took to move them.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by civilzues

Lets start nagging NSAP to get them!!

Good plan!!!

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Masospaghetti

Am i'm sick of hearing why a true "niche brand" can't make money. Sell them at ALL GM dealerships as a low volume product using platforms developed for international markets (i.e., G8) - no development costs, no dealer costs. Don't advertise - let the product become known on its own. If they sell slow, who cares? The international market has the economy of scale that allows this to work.

Someone please explain to me why Pontiac, even with a single vehicle (G8), couldn't be sold at all GM dealers. WHY would it be a money pit?

Because the G8 costs money to federalize to meet US standards for safety standards.

And WHAT would a Pontiac G8 bring to the table that an identical Chevrolet Lumina with nothing changed but the badges wouldn't?

[gmlr]

GM made a profit on every G8 that was made, Holden booked the profit when the G8 was sold to a dealer. GM had raised the price of the G8 in baby steps to the point a 3500 to 4000 rebate was the same as paying full sticker. The G8 sold a a good rate when held to production of G8s by Holden, and I repeat Holden made good money off of G8 sales and they will make good money off of Caprice sales too. Most GM rebates are baked into the sticker price, a $48k Buick Enclave may have $3000 in rebates but that rebate is already reflected in the price, the same with a 42K Caddy SRX with $1500 in rebates on a car that selling off the truck. GM has priced the SRX to sell at a certain price point with $1500 to $4000 in rebates, GM will raise the price over the next 12 months a couple of times and raise the rebates with the price increases, and turn a profit on every SRX sold. In June of 2008 a G8 pattern #7 car , Premium.Sunroof and sport was about 32,745 but today its 35,255 thats a 2,510 increase. GM made money on every G8 built. Today the G8 has 3,500 to 6000 in rebates but most will only qualify for the 3,500. GM has raised the price to the point it is making more on G8s today than it was when they were launched. I found only a mere 10 G8s within 100 miles of me.

[gagt02]

What's a Pontiac??

[CRW]

Originally Posted by wescoent

And WHAT would a Pontiac G8 bring to the table that an identical Chevrolet Lumina with nothing changed but the badges wouldn't?

It's already here (or was) and there was a steady flow of them coming. There's your big plus for keeping it a G8 and continuing to bring them over.

[1957wildcat]

Here are a few sentences from an Oct. 24, 2009 article in the Detroit Free Press:

"Regal will be a grand-slam home run," Tom Stephens, GM vice chairman of global product development, told the Free Press in an interview.

Stephens also said the early success of the LaCrosse shows the wider importance of the Buick brand.

"We kept the Buick brand because of its global nature," Stephens said.

Earlier this year, the Obama administration's auto task force questioned keeping the Buick brand as GM underwent planning for a sweeping restructuring, which eventually included bankruptcy reorganization.

"Buick's important because of its volume, its revenue basis and its ability to sustain itself. Remember Fritz" -- GM's CEO Henderson -- "said that everything has to pull its own weight," Stephens said. "Buick more than pulls its own weight."