BEHIND THE DECISION: GM Executive Explains Why Pontiac Died; Why Buick Will Succeed

[ledfoot73]

I've alway's loved past GM vice president Bunkie Knudson comment about sales. "you can sell an old man a young man's car, but you can't sell a young man an old mans car." He helped orchestrate the turn around of Pontiac in the early 60's with this philosophy, now the philosophy at GM seems to be that if you are young, or young at heart we can sell you an old mans car that you will love, you don't need performance or excitement. They can't really be surprised when so many are not that thrilled with Buick, it's a totally different market segment. I for one can not bring myself to buy a fwd car, but that's just my feeling.

[AMERICA 123]

Mr Knudsen's remarks were highly relevant .... especially in their time and shortly thereafter.

- with over half the country under nineteen and with a younger population on the move upward economically speaking.

Not saying its not relevant today - it certainly is in its purest form but the practical value of that observation has been weakened by the march of demographic and other related change in the market base.

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by ksr

I thought that the "niche plan" for Pontiac made sense and still does.

This has been said multiple times, but there really was no "niche plan". Unless you count being Avis Rentacar's fleet b*tch as a plan.

[mrgto]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

This has been said multiple times, but there really was no "niche plan". Unless you count being Avis Rentacar's fleet b*tch as a plan.

There was before GM went Chp.11 and in order for them to get a bail out they had to cut divisions. So with Buick doing well in China as an emerging market, there only left one other brand to kill. Saturn, Saab, Hummer and Opel all had potential buyers.

[ksr]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

This has been said multiple times, but there really was no "niche plan". Unless you count being Avis Rentacar's fleet b*tch as a plan.

Yes there was. It was in the plan originally prepared by GM for Congress when they were begging for money.

I downloaded the plan and read much of it.

[philr]

Originally Posted by ledfoot73

I've alway's loved past GM vice president Bunkie Knudson comment about sales. "you can sell an old man a young man's car, but you can't sell a young man an old mans car." He helped orchestrate the turn around of Pontiac in the early 60's with this philosophy, now the philosophy at GM seems to be that if you are young, or young at heart we can sell you an old mans car that you will love, you don't need performance or excitement. They can't really be surprised when so many are not that thrilled with Buick, it's a totally different market segment. I for one can not bring myself to buy a fwd car, but that's just my feeling.

Same for me! GM is completely wrong again.
I don't like the current Buicks, they don't look good and they are FWD...

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by ksr

Yes there was. It was in the plan originally prepared by GM for Congress when they were begging for money.

I downloaded the plan and read much of it.

OK, please quote the details then, because as I recall there weren't any. As NSAP reported, Pontiac was already being wound down, which meant fleetwhore time.

[throwback]

I find it interesting she does not mention the government. I'm sure they had some say in what brands stayed or went. Welfare comes with strings attached.

[Jimmy Jive]

The shut down of Pontiac is a real sticky issue. It was an unprofitable division because of poor GM management. But I suppose they realized even if they tried to revitalize it, who would buy? They weren't going to suck in Lexus, Acura, BMW buyers. Most of the sales went to fleet, and those who did buy, bought 4cylinder base models. Would the average G6 buyer purchase the Insignia at a more premium cost?

I loved Pontiac. Planned to buy their cars until I was cold in the ground. But their closing didn't sting as much as I thought it would. Pontiac was just to much of a mess to save.
That's not to say with enough money they couldn't have been saved. But dire straights.

I also see why they kept Buick. Profitable in China. Still can demand somewhat of a premium, and can only go up. One of their oldest brands. And I believe more of a clean slate to work with. Buick can be just about anything GM wants. From entry-lux, to sporty pretensions, to full out luxury. Pontiac was more limited as to what it could be.


Oh, and that jazz about legality reasons for not switching one car to another division seems like a bunch of hooey. They're all GM cars, sell them under any badge you want.

[OLDSCHOOLGMFAN]

Originally Posted by Bravada

Pontiac died because GM didn't know how to make money out of smaller cars.

GM's cars have been underpriced vs. the market, and either relied on ever increasing displacement/HP (by means of sticking ever larger outdated powerplants under the hood), or were simply regrettable econoboxes (Metro or original Aveo anyone?) Nobody felt like letting GM earn as much as Honda or Toyota on a vehicle, and GM had the policy of only investing where the money came from (that is why we now have a never-ending stream of Thetas, four Lambdas, or that GM had countless G-, H- and C-bodies, while the Cavalier languished for a decade and the Cruze now has to wait until 2011).

The Grand Prix and Bonneville were adorable MPS's (Makeshift Performance Sedans), but in the new millennium they were so laughably out of place (and their interiors were downright SCARY) they only ran on fumes and slowly died. When they went away, GM suddenly discovered Pontiac is making a loss.

GM has majorly fudged up the G6, replacing a notorious rental queen from the world of Fisher-Price with an Oprahmobile that effectively nixed any Pontiac performance credentials and made any attempt at turnaround DOA. The G6 concept was attractive, but it was simply impossible to mix its looks with "family value", so what resulted was a bland, unbalanced and downmarket midsize sedan. God knows why GM chose to give Chevrolet the SWB and Pontiac the LWB Epsilon (to keep Malibu from stepping on Impala's toes perhaps, but then the G6 effectively nixed the even more cramped-than-impala Grand Prix).

Then GM for some reason thought Opel's new sporty styling direction befits the brand known for plasticky small cars more than Pontiac.

Finally, GM replaced the Sunfire, the vehicle that once brought new customers to GM (yes, that includes college girls) with an indistinct clone of an equally indistinct generic compact. Nobody waited for Sunfire II, so essentially GM was spending extra money on separate marketing for the same car.

I think Pontiac died when GM realized the G6 is a dud (2005?) and since then made next to no effort to prop the brand, or worse even, half-assed effort.


And yes, Buick survived because Buicks start at a higher MSRP (for GM: are larger) and include a higher SUV content. China had little to do with it (even if such arguments would work with the notoriously insubstantial RenCen).

What you say about the Grand Prix and Bonneville is pure garbage.

[bmarkdc]

I hate to say it being a diehard Pontiac fan.. but the division had lost it's way. 3 of my first 4 cars were pontiacs, but when I was ready to get rid of my 2000 Grand AM in 2004 they had nothing I really wanted. THe cars like the Solstace and the G8 were great but by the time they came out it was too late. I stuck with GM though and love my Denali

[OLDSCHOOLGMFAN]

This Docherty is an idiot. I don't believe nothing that comes out of her stupid mouth.

[Ci2Eye]

Same stupid mumbo-jumbo GM has been peddling for years. They do a poor job designing their products or let them die on the vine then can them claiming they were "unprofitable" and there was "declining demand" for them. I've been hearing the same talk for 25 years from this lame company that I once loved. Even with bankruptcy, nothing seems new with them.

Pontiac is dead. Oldsmobile is dead. Saturn is dead. GMC will be next to go. Then it will be Buicks turn. They'll be sold to the Chinese like Hummer was. Chevrolet and Cadillac will go down with the ship. As soon as the government stops propping them up, this whole company will fold and its very sad to watch.

The only way it could be saved is to fire Ms. Docherty and the rest of GM's inept management who know how to make great excuses but not how to make great cars and hire people who understand that shrinking GM won't save it; only world-class, no-apology products will. I had hoped "new GM" would get the message but the new FWD XTS Cadillac and badge-engineered baby Buick based on the Cruze (think Cimarron) and this woman's PR statement tell me nothing has changed.

[CheetahDC]

Originally Posted by Ci2Eye

badge-engineered baby Buick based on the Cruze (think Cimarron) and this woman's PR statement tell me nothing has changed.

Astra, actually.

[shudacuda]

...but why keep the redundant GM brand? A Tahoe is a Yukon is a Tahoe.

Anyway I'm just bitter. I wanted the G8 Sport Truck.