Why can't I just look?

[Swahili]

Originally Posted by HoeyHimself

I get bugged when they lure me into the office because I have a hard time simply saying "No" and wind up filling out paperwork and the like. Yet, at the same time, I feel bugged when I can walk all around a lot and NOT get attention from the sales people. Go figure.

This is interesting because I'm often the same way when I venture into any sale where a salesperson is going to try and sell something. It's tough for them, they're darned if they do, darned if they don't. Maybe it makes sense to browse on Sunday's when no one is working.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by ChebbySalesDept

Make it 6 dealers and leave us off the list. We're not getting into a bidding war with our fellow dealers. In fact, please make it known to all of the 5 dealers that you intend to shop the other 4 and whoever gives the lowest price wins. You will get lowballed so bad you won't know what hit you. That's what the "what if?" is for.

"O geez, we can't do that price. We ran out of the coupons we were gonna give you last week." We'll chuckle as you steam out the door and go back to lowball number 2.

Hey, thats the game - you guys hate it b/c it works. For what its worth, I don't go back and play bidding games - and if you have an internet / fleet department I've had good luck with them.

Like I said, you really want me to lose a thousand dollars b/c I spent an hour of your time. Thats insane. I do the same for a TV, they work on commission at some stores.

Yes, I fill out the CSI and yes I always make it perfect - I'll play the game.

Someone lowballed me once. I talked to 6 potential customers on the lot, I saw 5 of them leave after I talked to them. I told everyone I know in the area. I wrote it up on the internet. I know I cost that store some money - much more than if they had honored their price. In the day of the internet, everything becomes public. If you are consistently lowballing, you will hurt your business. Maybe in the past it didn't matter as much, but going forward...

[espo19047]

Originally Posted by goblue

Hey, thats the game - you guys hate it b/c it works. For what its worth, I don't go back and play bidding games - and if you have an internet / fleet department I've had good luck with them.

Like I said, you really want me to lose a thousand dollars b/c I spent an hour of your time. Thats insane. I do the same for a TV, they work on commission at some stores.

Yes, I fill out the CSI and yes I always make it perfect - I'll play the game.

Someone lowballed me once. I talked to 6 potential customers on the lot, I saw 5 of them leave after I talked to them. I told everyone I know in the area. I wrote it up on the internet. I know I cost that store some money - much more than if they had honored their price. In the day of the internet, everything becomes public. If you are consistently lowballing, you will hurt your business. Maybe in the past it didn't matter as much, but going forward...

Isn't there any value for your own time? Thank God most customers are not like you. If you do a little research before you go you will not lose "thousands of dollars." You will soon develop a reputation and most of the experienced pros will avoid you and you will always deal with new guys and complain everytime you buy a car. Find the guy who does a good job and stay with him. If you have to buy another brand chances are your guy will refer you to a guy he knows who will treat you right. Buying a car does not have to be a battle.

[espo19047]

Originally Posted by triadecho

The very best and most knowledgable guys to talk to about the features and reliability of a new car are the mechanics and techs. These guys are often blunt and outspoken. They are, therefore, kept buffered from the public by the service reps.

You can often corner one when they bring your car up from the service garage. Strike up a conversation and you can learn a whole lot real quick.

Because out of thousands of cars sold they see the few that have problems? Why does everyone have to try to be so clever? I see custumers all day long who know how to buy a car it is not hard.

[BryceStrong]

goblue, that's pretty vindictive. If the dealer uses coupons, for instance, to make you the best possible deal right then, there is no reason for you to expect that that deal will still be valid upon your return. This is a market, you know. Market conditions change and there's nothing underhanded about that. Just read your paper. A dealership will blow out one or two units to drive traffic. If that unit is gone because you waited until 8:00 PM on the last day of the sale, are you gonna try to cost that dealership money, too?

[goblue]

Originally Posted by BryceStrong

goblue, that's pretty vindictive. If the dealer uses coupons, for instance, to make you the best possible deal right then, there is no reason for you to expect that that deal will still be valid upon your return. This is a market, you know. Market conditions change and there's nothing underhanded about that. Just read your paper. A dealership will blow out one or two units to drive traffic. If that unit is gone because you waited until 8:00 PM on the last day of the sale, are you gonna try to cost that dealership money, too?

I called, got a price, came in to buy and drive - 2 hours later - and the car had - dissapeared, and it was a "one time" special. We can't find it. Did you sell it? No. It became pretty clear what was going on, as another near identical car "showed up" - with an overall price 2K higher after slight option adjustment. So yeah, I went to the runner up and bought the car. But that dealer wasted my time on purpose - it was patently obvious - and for that he paid. Rightfully so.

Some of you are saying you'd intentionally lowball. You admitted it right here. Fine. Do it to me and you'll pay. Thats fair. I'm not the customer you want - great, I get it, you want the guy you can take for the most cash - thats fine. Thats the game, just do get ticked when some of us decide to play and not get taken.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by espo19047

Isn't there any value for your own time? Thank God most customers are not like you. If you do a little research before you go you will not lose "thousands of dollars." You will soon develop a reputation and most of the experienced pros will avoid you and you will always deal with new guys and complain everytime you buy a car. Find the guy who does a good job and stay with him. If you have to buy another brand chances are your guy will refer you to a guy he knows who will treat you right. Buying a car does not have to be a battle.

Well, my time isn't worth 3 grand for maybe 2 hours of work. Wish it was. Here's the last purchase. Went to local dealer, liked the car, negotiated - had invoice info, everything, took a good hour of my time, got $500 off. I was ready to buy, they did the pressure thing, and finally offered $500 off as I walked out the door. This wasn't an american car. So, I called 3 other dealerships. Got 3 different prices. One was 1K lower, another $1500 lower, and the last $3K lower.

So, I called the first dealer, and said, you match this dealer and you've got a sale. Pretty decent of me I thought. He said there is no way, tryed to guilt trip me, etc. I went to the $3K off dealer the same day, took the car home the next day - they got it from an area dealer.

Like I said, your time is worth $200-300 to me for a sale, I will give a dealer that much for the hour of time and the paperwork, but you can bet I'm going to check and make sure I'm getting a good deal. The car before, one dealer was $500 less, so I split the difference with the original dealer. Win. Win. Had he held firm at $500 more, he would have lost the sale.

If you don't like this game - work for Saturn. We are not privy to dealer cash, F/I games and the like, you are holding most of the cards. My card is competition - you're not the only game in town, so you bet, I'm going to use that card. The problem for you is you can't control that card. So the hungriest dealer gets the sale. I could just send out bids. Thats in effect what I'm doing. As I said, I don't go back and forth, name your price, lowest wins.

[espo19047]

Originally Posted by goblue

If you don't like this game - work for Saturn. We are not privy to dealer cash, F/I games and the like, you are holding most of the cards. My card is competition - you're not the only game in town, so you bet, I'm going to use that card. The problem for you is you can't control that card. So the hungriest dealer gets the sale. I could just send out bids. Thats in effect what I'm doing. As I said, I don't go back and forth, name your price, lowest wins.

You can do that from your computer. Why not do it first and go and buy the car from the lowest bidder? I dont consider my job as a "game." You are a person who generalizes and think all salesman are the same. I do not need someone to tell me where to work. I will tell you my price if you like it fine if you don't fine just leave. I do not need your games because you are uninformed or ignorant. You know about half as much as you think you know.
Did you know about the coupons the previous poster talked about?My dealership took 90 extra Cobalts to help our regional rep. GM gave us an extra $500 in dealer cash if they where on the lot more then 90 days. We are a volume dealer so we earn coupons from GM so there are times when we may be able to beat another dealer.
If I was sending my Mother to buy a car I would ask to salesman to sell her the car at $200 over invoice. Sometimes I will ask a customer what he thinks is fair for me to make. I will show him the invoice and ask him how much over the invoice is fair.
Your antics are not helping you.

[FStephenMasek]

All of this is why going to a car show is wonderful. The only problem may be crowds, especially around "hot" new vehicles, but going when attendance will be thin (early in the day, early on the first day of the show, ertc.) solves that problem.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by espo19047

You can do that from your computer. Why not do it first and go and buy the car from the lowest bidder? I dont consider my job as a "game." You are a person who generalizes and think all salesman are the same. I do not need someone to tell me where to work. I will tell you my price if you like it fine if you don't fine just leave. I do not need your games because you are uninformed or ignorant. You know about half as much as you think you know.
Did you know about the coupons the previous poster talked about?My dealership took 90 extra Cobalts to help our regional rep. GM gave us an extra $500 in dealer cash if they where on the lot more then 90 days. We are a volume dealer so we earn coupons from GM so there are times when we may be able to beat another dealer.
If I was sending my Mother to buy a car I would ask to salesman to sell her the car at $200 over invoice. Sometimes I will ask a customer what he thinks is fair for me to make. I will show him the invoice and ask him how much over the invoice is fair.
Your antics are not helping you.

Exactly, just tell me your price. If I test drive from you - about the only thing I can't do from a computer - I'll offer you the shot to beat the best price. Also, for the record, I've never met a salesman that knows more about the car I want than I do. I ask a few detailed questions, and always get a wrong answer. Thats why all I need you for is a test drive and a quote. Also, do you think I'm so dumb as not to know that even at invoice you could be earning thousands? As you said, certain dealers have certain deals - thats why you shop around. My last car, $900 under invoice. So the dealer took a $900 loss and the salesman made nothing? I'm beginning to think you don't know much about selling cars. We are not privy to the true price the dealer paid, it depends on lots of factors.

The real question is what is reasonable for me to pay over what the dealership paid. The answer? It depends. But you get to make that call, not me. Thats what getting bids is all about.My "antics" are getting me great prices on cars.

However, and this is key - I didn't do the things that got the car salesman the least respected profession award - consistently. Thats on you and everyone before you. So, don't lecture me. All I'm doing is asking for bids, a very basic business practice.

[Auto_x_Al]

Originally Posted by goblue

Well, my time isn't worth 3 grand for maybe 2 hours of work. Wish it was. Here's the last purchase. Went to local dealer, liked the car, negotiated - had invoice info, everything, took a good hour of my time, got $500 off. I was ready to buy, they did the pressure thing, and finally offered $500 off as I walked out the door. This wasn't an american car. So, I called 3 other dealerships. Got 3 different prices. One was 1K lower, another $1500 lower, and the last $3K lower.

So, I called the first dealer, and said, you match this dealer and you've got a sale. Pretty decent of me I thought. He said there is no way, tryed to guilt trip me, etc. I went to the $3K off dealer the same day, took the car home the next day - they got it from an area dealer.

Like I said, your time is worth $200-300 to me for a sale, I will give a dealer that much for the hour of time and the paperwork, but you can bet I'm going to check and make sure I'm getting a good deal. The car before, one dealer was $500 less, so I split the difference with the original dealer. Win. Win. Had he held firm at $500 more, he would have lost the sale.

If you don't like this game - work for Saturn. We are not privy to dealer cash, F/I games and the like, you are holding most of the cards. My card is competition - you're not the only game in town, so you bet, I'm going to use that card. The problem for you is you can't control that card. So the hungriest dealer gets the sale. I could just send out bids. Thats in effect what I'm doing. As I said, I don't go back and forth, name your price, lowest wins.

Actually you're quite wrong. You're hurting the small town dealer who's aces in their service department where you will take your car but because you want to save a few bucks you'll buy from the dealer who's afforded the extra inventory coupons or dealer cash. Thanks alot but I'll gladly spend my time with a respectful guest who knows true value. My customers are treated with respect and dignity. They'll also pay a few extra dollars and not worry about it because they're trated like Kings. A great deal is a frame of mind. All you want to do is have a dealer give a car away. By the way we have to pay for these cars on our lots. We get to pay less because we have 2 mil or better of inventory versus your $100K. Thanks but no thanks.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by Auto_x_Al

Actually you're quite wrong. You're hurting the small town dealer who's aces in their service department where you will take your car but because you want to save a few bucks you'll buy from the dealer who's afforded the extra inventory coupons or dealer cash. Thanks alot but I'll gladly spend my time with a respectful guest who knows true value. My customers are treated with respect and dignity. They'll also pay a few extra dollars and not worry about it because they're trated like Kings. A great deal is a frame of mind. All you want to do is have a dealer give a car away. By the way we have to pay for these cars on our lots. We get to pay less because we have 2 mil or better of inventory versus your $100K. Thanks but no thanks.

I'm not sure what any of that meant - but what I do know is you love relationships because it causes people to pay more over time. I don't want a friend, we're not going to have thanksgiving dinner together. Just want the car, at the least amount possible. You want me to pay the most amount possible. I love the ethical play - thats Saturn's game, not yours. You will take me for the last dime I have if I let you.

I don't live in a small town, probably never will - If I did, I might support my local busineses as that would help me. I live in a metropolitan area, and it really doesn't matter which dealer I support.

Now, as far as service, you get paid for that, right? Either by me or GM. If your service department is good, you will get paid again and again - with my repeat business and CSI scores. Thats different. My relationship with them actually matters.

I buy a car every 3or 4 years. I do the research myself, take a few test drives alone, and frankly rely on the salesman for nothing but a price and some paperwork. So like I said, I don't want a relationship, don't need to be treated like a king (thats a nice thought in the service department)

I just want a car at the best price with the least contact with the salesman as possible. And you know what, I bet thats what most people want. Again, I'm not the reason the car salesman stereotype exists.

[espo19047]

Originally Posted by Auto_x_Al

Actually you're quite wrong. You're hurting the small town dealer who's aces in their service department where you will take your car but because you want to save a few bucks you'll buy from the dealer who's afforded the extra inventory coupons or dealer cash. Thanks alot but I'll gladly spend my time with a respectful guest who knows true value. My customers are treated with respect and dignity. They'll also pay a few extra dollars and not worry about it because they're trated like Kings. A great deal is a frame of mind. All you want to do is have a dealer give a car away. By the way we have to pay for these cars on our lots. We get to pay less because we have 2 mil or better of inventory versus your $100K. Thanks but no thanks.

It is hard to sell people who have no passion for the car or its features. Some people are so caught up in saving a buck they make themselves and everyone around them miserable. I agree with you about service.I sell myself and my dealership I am well trained and know the product. People come here and trash salesman all of the time. I wish they would realize the salesman who come here care and like to get an idea what people think. The bad salesguys do not come to GMI on a regular basis. Some customers like to come in and ask a few obscure questions that they already know the answer to. This is a waste of everyones time but the customer in some way gets his kicks or feels superior for a brief moment. These know it alls have researched the car they want. When you know the whole line and most of the competition then I will be impressed. It just takes an incredible amount of gall for the average guy to think he knows it all and the salesman knows nothing. I like when a customer thinks there are thousands more when you get into holdback. They are not worried if they get a good deal they just want to make sure the salesman loses.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by goblue

I'm not sure what any of that meant - but what I do know is you love relationships because it causes people to pay more over time. I don't want a friend, we're not going to have thanksgiving dinner together. Just want the car, at the least amount possible. You want me to pay the most amount possible. I love the ethical play - thats Saturn's game, not yours. You will take me for the last dime I have if I let you.

I don't live in a small town, probably never will - If I did, I might support my local busineses as that would help me. I live in a metropolitan area, and it really doesn't matter which dealer I support.

Now, as far as service, you get paid for that, right? Either by me or GM. If your service department is good, you will get paid again and again - with my repeat business and CSI scores. Thats different. My relationship with them actually matters.

I buy a car every 3or 4 years. I do the research myself, take a few test drives alone, and frankly rely on the salesman for nothing but a price and some paperwork. So like I said, I don't want a relationship, don't need to be treated like a king (thats a nice thought in the service department)

I just want a car at the best price with the least contact with the salesman as possible. And you know what, I bet thats what most people want. Again, I'm not the reason the car salesman stereotype exists.

What you just described makes you look VERY adversarial, the buying process isn't that black and white.

In fact I'd go as far as to say you remind me of my father in this respect. Which is why I refuse to buy a car when he is around (if I need his signature I bring him in on paper day to sign things and that is it). I don't like to car shop with people who deep down inside want to act like an ******* because they think someone is out to screw them (and that's EXACTLY what your post sounds like).

[espo19047]

Originally Posted by goblue

I just want a car at the best price with the least contact with the salesman as possible. And you know what, I bet thats what most people want. Again, I'm not the reason the car salesman stereotype exists.

I see the Michigan logo on your avatar. If you werent such a jerk I'm sure you could have networked your way into getting a GSU number from someone in your area and you wouldnt have to put yourself thru this. A customer who had a relationship with me ran into some bad luck. My managers wife works for GMAC and we were able to get her a GM in your driveway certificate. She was very thankful because her car was totaled and we helped her out.
I'll bet there are many stories about relationships the salesman here could tell. I do business with my customers, they sell me flowers, fix my heater install my rain gutters ect.
Thank God people like you are the exception.