Sales Tactics?

[roy219]

Originally Posted by pawmjw

2. The dealer who will sell at invoice stated that this is only for cars on his lot. The options I want require me to order the car (hey, if you are spending 40K on a car, you should get what you want). He then said if I order the price is higher and he would have to charge an additional shipping charge. What is the truth in all this? Extra shipping charge?

That sounds rather shady. I can't think of any ancillary shipping charge that would be legitimate on a customer sold order vehicle. Also, pricing should not be higher on a sold order- if anything, such an arrangement should be MORE amenable to a discounted price (as you mentioned one of the other dealers stated). Of course, GM may apply an interim price increase on the Acadia by the time you take delivery, but that should be nominal.

Hope you had an enjoyable time at the Chicago Auto Show!

[roy219]

Originally Posted by pawmjw

I have always heard that one should stay away from 1st year models because the "bugs" have not all been worked out. Is this true?

Yup. In the case of the Acadia and Outlook, JD Power and Associates' initial quality study for 2007 models found both to be below average, as did TrueDelta.com. TrueDelta's data indicate notably better quality for the 2008 models.

[pawmjw]

Originally Posted by unkillsam

Why don't you ask that dealer then.

If it was not an attack then why did you question the dealer that would only sell to you $1,000.00 under MSRP like he didn't care about selling you the car.

It is possible that the one dealer that would go to invoice had a few models on his lot he needed to get rid of ASAP, but based on inventory reports and turnover rates, I doubt that any other dealers would go to invoice on this vehicle.

In the end, each dealer can set any price on any car, above MSRP or below invoice.

Please don't join GMI, flame a dealer on something stupid, and then expect not to get called on it. None of the dealers acted inappropriatly given the circumstances.

I did not question the dealer nor did I say that he did not care. A few hundred $$$ difference is understandable, even expected but a few thousand almost sounds too good to be true, and as the saying goes...it usually is. I just wanted to know if this is something to be wary of. I do appreciate you answering my question. I never stated nor believed that any dealer acted innappropriately. In fact, I will probably end up at the dealer who was only $1000 under MSRP since it is closer to my home. Unfortunately, car salesman get stereotyped as dishonest, pushy and deceptive. I know that a majority are not but I have run into a few in the past and that experience sours any car buying experience.

[Ed753]

Originally Posted by pawmjw

I was really hoping to get some good advice from this forum. Of all the questions I have posted in this thread...only one was answered and even that was a guess.

As I said before ................. lots of "FACTS" here sir .... I'll admit, I'm biased, in keeping the most money in my pocket ... I've bought 9 new cars/trucks in the past 11 years: 5 GM, 2 Dodge, 1 Jeep, 1 Ford.

Originally Posted by Ed753

I would eliminate the least competitive dealers and focus harder on the others, as you are aware, multiple dealers offering essentially the same, and your only going to buy one, so the others will loose-out.

Typically a dealer wants to move something they have on the lot, because after 90 days or so they have to start paying financing charges/costs on that vehicle.

The dealer that is willing to give you a better deal if you order, will make the sale, and deposit your money 6-8 weeks before they have to pay GM for the car, so they are willing to book that profit/savings into your price for a better deal.

The problem with that is cars typically increase in price during the model year, so one on the lot with MSRP of $35,000 built in October is going to be $35,500 if you ordered it exactly the same today. (GM had a price change/increase on the 2008 Acadia on October 5th and December 19th)

The extra shipping, I'd guess with the continued increase in the cost of fuel GM probably increased the destination charges, which is part of the MSRP.

Hope this helps, GM should be throwing some Auto Show Cash too, if that is in town, so I'd shop and move quick if you are ready.

[pawmjw]

Originally Posted by Ed753

As I said before ................. lots of "FACTS" here sir .... I'll admit, I'm biased, in keeping the most money in my pocket ... I've bought 9 new cars/trucks in the past 11 years: 5 GM, 2 Dodge, 1 Jeep, 1 Ford.

I do appreciate the info from someone who buys a LOT more cars than I... 1 car in the last 8 years. It is just frustrating hearing from those who spend so much time being defensive and not focusing on the question.

[drew630]

Lets get back to the original question:

Originally Posted by pawmjw

I am looking to purchase a 2008 GMC Acadia. I did all my homework on the net and narrowed down what I wanted and what the invoice price is. I have contacted a few dealers and these are my questions...
1. All but 1 dealer would not sell to me at invoice. The best they would do is $1000 under MSRP. Why? Is this a choice or is it policy?

Choice and simple economics. If a vehicle is popular and the dealer knows that vehicle will not sit on the lot for long, why would he want to sell that vehicle for less to one person than he knows he could sell if for to the next person?

Originally Posted by pawmjw

I realize this car is popular, but given the current economy, I cannot believe they would let a sale get away. 1 Dealer did say that they would discount the price more if I ordered the car which leads me to the next question...

But, thats just it, the economy makes it even more important for the dealer to sell its popular vehicles for the most it can get for them. The dealer who will sell at invoice as probably had that vehicle sitting on the lot for a while, couple months at least.

Originally Posted by pawmjw

2. The dealer who will sell at invoice stated that this is only for cars on his lot. The options I want require me to order the car (hey, if you are spending 40K on a car, you should get what you want). He then said if I order the price is higher and he would have to charge an additional shipping charge. What is the truth in all this? Extra shipping charge?

Cars that sit on the lot are discounted, cars that don't, aren't. If you order a vehicle, the dealer is 99.9% sure you will be buying the vehicle. Why would he discount it if he knew your were going to buy it when it arrived? As for the extra shipping cost, I don't know.

Originally Posted by pawmjw

I live in Chicago and am going to the Auto Show tomorrow to look at what is out there.

Well have fun, but try and look at only the vehicles that aren't very popular. You will find invoice pricing at the dealer for those.

Originally Posted by pawmjw

I really like the Acadia but I firmly believe that invoice price is where you start to negotiate, no matter how popular the car. I hate to haggle and negotiate and just want a fair price without any hidden costs.

So fair price = invoice price?? I do agree with the hidden cost part. But the extra shipping cost wouldn't be considered hidden since the dealer told you about it before you ordered the vehicle.

Originally Posted by pawmjw

I would think that a car dealer makes far more money after the sale in service dollars. Be fair and honest with the customer at the sale and they will come back for service.

Works both ways (especially on the being fair part). Going into any dealership demanding you start invoice pricing, especially on one of its more popular vehicles, will never put you in good terms with that dealer.

Originally Posted by pawmjw

Any suggestions that you may have would be greatly appreciated!!

The truth is you didn't want "suggestions", your simply here to complain. O, and just so you know, I am in no way a dealer. I am just a customer that feels you give a little extra in the beginning to get a lot in return.

[BryceStrong]

Originally Posted by pawmjw

Why does everyone seem to evade answering simple questions?

Good question.

Originally Posted by BryceStrong

Why do you believe that invoice is the starting point for negotiation? And what's your basis for a "fair price"? If you want to get a better deal than MSRP, you ought to have some good reasoning for it. And your distaste for negotiating does not make those dealers unfair or dishonest.

[pawmjw]

[quote=drew630;1314858]Lets get back to the original question:

Originally Posted by pawmjw

I am looking to purchase a 2008 GMC Acadia. I did all my homework on the net and narrowed down what I wanted and what the invoice price is. I have contacted a few dealers and these are my questions...
1. All but 1 dealer would not sell to me at invoice. The best they would do is $1000 under MSRP. Why? Is this a choice or is it policy? Choice and simple economics. If a vehicle is popular and the dealer knows that vehicle will not sit on the lot for long, why would he want to sell that vehicle for less to one person than he knows he could sell if for to the next person?

But, thats just it, the economy makes it even more important for the dealer to sell its popular vehicles for the most it can get for them. The dealer who will sell at invoice as probably had that vehicle sitting on the lot for a while, couple months at least.



Cars that sit on the lot are discounted, cars that don't, aren't. If you order a vehicle, the dealer is 99.9% sure you will be buying the vehicle. Why would he discount it if he knew your were going to buy it when it arrived? As for the extra shipping cost, I don't know.



Well have fun, but try and look at only the vehicles that aren't very popular. You will find invoice pricing at the dealer for those.



So fair price = invoice price?? I do agree with the hidden cost part. But the extra shipping cost wouldn't be considered hidden since the dealer told you about it before you ordered the vehicle.



Works both ways (especially on the being fair part). Going into any dealership demanding you start invoice pricing, especially on one of its more popular vehicles, will never put you in good terms with that dealer.



The truth is you didn't want "suggestions", your simply here to complain. O, and just so you know, I am in no way a dealer. I am just a customer that feels you give a little extra in the beginning to get a lot in return.

Actually...the replys here turned questions into complaints. I am not complaining in any way in the original post. I was just curious as to why dealers act in this way and what is their motivation. The replies became so defensive that it seemed people were evading the questions. I do thank you for answering all the questions in the original post.

[Slowrider5]

Check your PM's.

[pawmjw]

Originally Posted by BryceStrong

Good question.

Ok...In researching this purchase, I looked for reviews in Consumer Reports. The very first page of the review began with "Strategies to use when negotiating" and right there at the beginning it says " When discussing price, all negotiations begin at invoice". I just did not pull this out of my a##...It is printed in a very reputable publication. It also never stated that newer or popular models are excluded. It can also be found on Edmunds and Cars.com.

This should never have become contentious. For those of us who are not in the business, or do not buy cars every couple of years, this is a big decision and big purchase. Forgive me for being untrusting and cynical about all this but I want to be sure that for this amount of money, I am getting honest and straightforward prices.

This whole invoice pricing thing is a joke! Why put those numbers out there if it only applies to some models and not others? Do salesman decide on their own if they will give one customer better pricing over another? What really does happen when he says "Let me go talk to the manager"?
These are all legitimate questions. These questions are not meant as an attack...I am just looking for information so I can be better prepared.

[MalibuMaxxSS]

As a salesman I can pretty much set my own gross on vehicles, HOWEVER the vehicle you are looking at is one of the most sought after vehicles out there, as the Malibu is now....and we were told flat out no discount on popular models...

Now as far as phoning around I curious to know who and where the dealer the quoted your invoice is located....why?? well when someone phones me up and they are a considerable distance away and the odds are slim they will show up anyhow, I quote basically cost or less, why??...well if a dealer is gonna beat me they will have to sell it for cost, knowing they wont, you may show up here, and well sorry the one you called on is sold, BUT I gots this one over here..blah blah blah.....you get the picture..

Phoning will generally do you no good as ffar as Im concerned, there are 15 sales guys on the floor here and I know NOT 1 of them quote honest prices over the phone, why would we, your an idiot if you do...you want to negotiate find a salesman you like and buy the damn truck..you have the info you need.. You say you hve invoice on it, so go to the dealer and order it and tell him what you want to pay....he will say yes or no...simple really...to answer your question, its the dealers choice what he/she sells their inventory for..not you, or edmonds, or carpoint, or whatever magazine your reading....and on that note maybe read a different one cause the one your reading and getting your tatics from is not working for you....

Or maybe get edmunds or carpoint to negotiate for you.....and stop starting at cost....

[pawmjw]

Originally Posted by MalibuMaxxSS

As a salesman I can pretty much set my own gross on vehicles, HOWEVER the vehicle you are looking at is one of the most sought after vehicles out there, as the Malibu is now....and we were told flat out no discount on popular models...

Now as far as phoning around I curious to know who and where the dealer the quoted your invoice is located....why?? well when someone phones me up and they are a considerable distance away and the odds are slim they will show up anyhow, I quote basically cost or less, why??...well if a dealer is gonna beat me they will have to sell it for cost, knowing they wont, you may show up here, and well sorry the one you called on is sold, BUT I gots this one over here..blah blah blah.....you get the picture..

Phoning will generally do you no good as ffar as Im concerned, there are 15 sales guys on the floor here and I know NOT 1 of them quote honest prices over the phone, why would we, your an idiot if you do...you want to negotiate find a salesman you like and buy the damn truck..you have the info you need.. You say you hve invoice on it, so go to the dealer and order it and tell him what you want to pay....he will say yes or no...simple really...to answer your question, its the dealers choice what he/she sells their inventory for..not you, or edmonds, or carpoint, or whatever magazine your reading....and on that note maybe read a different one cause the one your reading and getting your tatics from is not working for you....

Or maybe get edmunds or carpoint to negotiate for you.....and stop starting at cost....

Very helpful info until the third paragraph...why be so negative and defensive...does your dealer offer anger management courses?

[MalibuMaxxSS]

Originally Posted by pawmjw

Very helpful info until the third paragraph...why be so negative and defensive...does your dealer offer anger management courses?

iTS NOT ANGER ITS FRUSTRATION....as a salesman people like you and no offence dude...but you are taxing...you phone and phone, if your phoneing around and you get a price you like GO GET IT...why bother the other dealer, you se your phoning to get the lowest price...and good for you you should shop....but then it sounds to me and maybe im off base here, but your trying to Force your local dealer to match their price....

I get this everyday...Vancouver is a 10 hour ride.....1 way...in the winter close to 12 thru the mountains, and everyday I get people 'well the dealer in Vancouver will sell it 500 bucks less then you..' ya know what have a nice drive. its 10 hours away, so 2 days of your time and a night spent there, gas money to get there, and then you get all that great service from the local dealer....OUR customers are first in the service bays here,

[pontiacjs]

Originally Posted by pawmjw

This whole invoice pricing thing is a joke! Why put those numbers out there if it only applies to some models and not others? Do salesman decide on their own if they will give one customer better pricing over another? What really does happen when he says "Let me go talk to the manager"?
These are all legitimate questions. These questions are not meant as an attack...I am just looking for information so I can be better prepared.

Some dealers allow their salesmen to write their own deals. They give them guidelines and let them do thier job. I am allowed to do this and I will take a short deal if I know it is going to be a quick sale or I like the person I am dealing with.

If someone comes right out and says that they are going to go to 10 different dealers and they will buy from the lowest bid I wish them good luck and send them on the way. When you go to 10 different dealers you will get 2 or 3 good prices and 7 or 8 low ball offers from the rest.

****THIS IS IMPORTANT****
anybody can give you a great deal on a vehicle they do not have. Do not get mad at the dealer who has what you want and is asking for a fair profit.

[GMCdriver]

I had a GM who had an interesting method for when someone wanted our "best price so they could go shop around"

He would pencil a deal at $1000-1500 in the hole and be very clear that this price he was offering was only good right now. If they left and came back later the best price he would offer would be 500 over cost.
Now he didn't spcificly say that the price he was showing was in the hole, he would just say "you can buy it right now for $xx,xxx and this is the best deal you will ever see on this vehicle but if you want to go shop all over town the best price I will be able to do will be higher, I will want to be $500 above cost at that point." then they leave and spend the rest of the day not being able to get another dealer within $2,000 of the price they just walked away from. They typically burn their bridges everywhere else pushing for the same numbers they saw at your store and because they are so far out of line, none of the other dealers put much effort into them and tend to just brush them off. If you competetors are going to close the deal they have to bleed money to get it done and more often then not the customer shows back up trying to claim the previous offer(which is now off the table) but since he is back with you and he already has everyone elses numbers you have a great chance of closeing him at a reasonable profit now.

If a customer wants to play games and use tactics then I am perfectly willing to play games and use tactics but if they want to come in and shop like a person dealing respectfully with another person then I am more then happy to help them select a vehicle that meets their needs and fits their budget in a trustworthy and honest mannor.
In my experiance, the customer always sets the tone of the encounter.