Big Al's Day At The Dealer

[sonjaab]

$30k for the 2010 Camaro Z-28?????????

You gotta be nutz! If that car don't sticker for $40,000 I will
sure be suprised!

I will note the the new Challenger has hit the showrooms around the
Syracuse NY area. Of course they are all loaded out with all the goodies
along with the $2100 gas guzzler tax penalty and the MSRP stickers are
OVER $41,000 !!!!!!!!!!
No idea if the dealers are adding the good ol' ADM also...............

I can only assume a new Z will be priced the same..........

[caddycruiser]

Originally Posted by sonjaab

$30k for the 2010 Camaro Z-28?????????

You gotta be nutz! If that car don't sticker for $40,000 I will
sure be suprised!

I will note the the new Challenger has hit the showrooms around the
Syracuse NY area. Of course they are all loaded out with all the goodies
along with the $2100 gas guzzler tax penalty and the MSRP stickers are
OVER $41,000 !!!!!!!!!!
No idea if the dealers are adding the good ol' ADM also...............

I can only assume a new Z will be priced the same..........

Only the Challenger SRT-8 is out now and it is $41k give or take, which is exactly in line with the rest of the LX car SRT-8's which go even higher in sedan form. And still most are adding ADM--check Ebay with ALL the $59k Challengers and such, because each has only about 1. As such, they'll probably not move it at those kind of prices, and you can find a handful that will be happy to sell theirs at sticker or even below right now after they start sitting for a month plus. Certainly the case for 2009 and beyond when there's different models and much more production.

That's high, but it is NOT the common everyday model, it's the top choice. The rest for 2009--which a few local dealers have actually been putting in newspaper ads saying "Order your 2009 Challenger SE/RT today"--will be in the $20k's and low $30k's.

I expect the same for the Camaro, though probably a touch lower overall and with "more" there for the dough. We'll see.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by caddycruiser

Only the Challenger SRT-8 is out now and it is $41k give or take, which is exactly in line with the rest of the LX car SRT-8's which go even higher in sedan form. And still most are adding ADM--check Ebay with ALL the $59k Challengers and such, because each has only about 1. As such, they'll probably not move it at those kind of prices, and you can find a handful that will be happy to sell theirs at sticker or even below right now after they start sitting for a month plus. Certainly the case for 2009 and beyond when there's different models and much more production.

That's high, but it is NOT the common everyday model, it's the top choice. The rest for 2009--which a few local dealers have actually been putting in newspaper ads saying "Order your 2009 Challenger SE/RT today"--will be in the $20k's and low $30k's.

I expect the same for the Camaro, though probably a touch lower overall and with "more" there for the dough. We'll see.

Weekend Greets Caddycruiser:

As so many were mentioning the prices, here's something to consider: The purchases will require more money down, and better Credit than required in the past. I believe (because of exposure to Credit Issues, and Banking Failures) that leasing will be the next area major hit by the Financial Crisis. With future values of cars that may change dramatically the auto leasing business will certainly be affected. The results may lead to: limited models available for lease, and leases only available to individuals with FICO scores in the 780-or higher range. Because that range is much above the National Average, the majority of cars will have to be purchased. " This is directly the opposite of the ways most cars were acquired within the last 15-20 years. People will be forced to consider price, not only monthly payments, this will change the auto business dramatically! It is one of the reasons, that "Traditional Cadillac" customers are so important: They almost always pay cash, have the highest Credit Scores, and purchase over leasing.

These issues won't work well for the younger, less income enriched customers, also various other prestige imports (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus) will be some of the competition the Camaro will have to face. Am I beginning to make clear, why I am not as encouraged about how the obsticles down the road, will affect overall sales? It's hard to predict what vehicles will actually succeed 3-4 years down the line, because Market conditions are always subject to change.

What your take on this possible development?

[tom3]

Well, I suspect the $40K Camaro and Challenger will sure help Mustang sales for a while. Mustangs are sure popular in these parts.

[Dukeboy01]

I've gotten to the point where I don't expect the goofs haunting the floor of a car dealership to know anything more about the product they're selling than the goof standing behind the register at Wal- Mart knows about the toothpaste, underwear, and Mountain Dew in my cart there. Quite frankly, I expect them to know less than I do about the model I'm interested in and I want to be able to use that to my advantage when it comes time to negotiate the price.

That being said, there's no excuse for them not to know about the Camaro at this point. I don't expect them to be up to date on engines, transmission choices, and trim levels but they ought to know it's on the way.

[Dukeboy01]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Weekend Greets Caddycruiser:

As so many were mentioning the prices, here's something to consider: The purchases will require more money down, and better Credit than required in the past. I believe (because of exposure to Credit Issues, and Banking Failures) that leasing will be the next area major hit by the Financial Crisis. With future values of cars that may change dramatically the auto leasing business will certainly be affected. The results may lead to: limited models available for lease, and leases only available to individuals with FICO scores in the 780-or higher range. Because that range is much above the National Average, the majority of cars will have to be purchased. " This is directly the opposite of the ways most cars were acquired within the last 15-20 years. People will be forced to consider price, not only monthly payments, this will change the auto business dramatically! It is one of the reasons, that "Traditional Cadillac" customers are so important: They almost always pay cash, have the highest Credit Scores, and purchase over leasing.

These issues won't work well for the younger, less income enriched customers, also various other prestige imports (BMW, Mercedes, Lexus) will be some of the competition the Camaro will have to face. Am I beginning to make clear, why I am not as encouraged about how the obsticles down the road, will affect overall sales? It's hard to predict what vehicles will actually succeed 3-4 years down the line, because Market conditions are always subject to change.

What your take on this possible development?

Interesting point. Could the days of 120+ month financing be upon us, particularly if more manufacturers make the move to 10 year/ 100,000 mile bumper to bumper warranties?

[LAMRONH]

Your Chivvy dealer experience sounds too familiar, Big Al.

For about 15 years I bought a new or year-old car every year or so. The Chevy salesmen were among the tiredest and most ignorant I ever met.
What sort of price can I get this lovely Lumina for?
Look itt th' sticker. That's th' price.
Do you have them in black/white/whatever?
You kin paint it after you buy it.
Tell me about the mighty 3.1
These Shivvlayz engines are made by Cadillac. Lots of horsepower and they last forever with no maintenance.

Etc. etc.

Reminds me of visits to the local post office:
Now, according to your website...
Oh, I don't know about that. I've never been to the website. We don't have computers here.

Etc. etc.

I'm just glad that most doctors and nurses have more--a lot more--general knowledge in their fields than car salesmen. I'd say maybe five percent of car saleshomies know jack siht about their product.

They know about how many months and how much to finance, but as far as carnut knowledge, squirrels know more.

[BigAls87Z28]

Ohhh...Im sure they have a pricing sheet on how to get people into that ideal doller per month catagory if they havent memorized it by now.

Again, I dont expect them to know the angle of recline of the front seats, but I expect Chevy dealers to know that there is a Camaro, production starts late this year, sales in 6 months.
Same goes for Volt. All Chevy dealers should have a Volt Countdown clock....
"Pluging Into the Future in: XXX Years, XXX Days, XXX Hrs, XXX Mins, XXX seconds.

[BryceStrong]

Originally Posted by LAMRONH

I'm just glad that most doctors and nurses have more--a lot more--general knowledge in their fields than car salesmen. I'd say maybe five percent of car saleshomies know jack siht about their product.

They know about how many months and how much to finance, but as far as carnut knowledge, squirrels know more.

There are informed salesmen, like me, who know as much or more than I do (and I know just enough to get me by with most gearheads). There are people-skills salesmen who don't need to make a living on the likes of you. And there are green peas who know nothing. I reckon that most of the negative stigma of car salesmen comes from the green peas.

LAMRONH, if car salesmen were required to be ASE Certified and have more than eight years of practical automotive experience, you would be happy. 'Til then, ain't nothin' doin'. Maybe you should be happy that you can keep your green pea's commission check in your pocket.

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Again, I dont expect them to know the angle of recline of the front seats, but I expect Chevy dealers to know that there is a Camaro, production starts late this year, sales in 6 months.
Same goes for Volt. All Chevy dealers should have a Volt Countdown clock....
"Pluging Into the Future in: XXX Years, XXX Days, XXX Hrs, XXX Mins, XXX seconds.

Another salesman here got real excited the other day. He nearly stormed into my office to tell me about a new Camaro and that it'd have a big ol' supercharged V8. I mean, this came from a man who has no inclination to own a computer and would never use one if the dealership didn't have one. And there's a lotta people like that - some my age - who don't have access to the information we do. Think about it: we've been given a deluge of information on the Camaro by insiders and spy photographers. It's old news to us. It's so old to me that I wasn't excited about the official pictures. The problem is connected to a lack of information from GM (and it's not simply the Camaro). Our primary training comes from the brochures and playing with each model. Other than that, GM is worthless and the dealerships don't care to help. Add that to a lack of formal, paid training of people who don't even understand that no commission equals no paycheck and you get what you got before: a clueless bullring of salespeople shootin' the **** with a guy who has a pretty car.

Edit: Although GM DealerWorld provides us with information, there are sales managers who are just as uninterested to be on the computer as most old folks.

[LAMRONH]

Originally Posted by BryceStrong

There are informed salesmen, like me, who know as much or more than I do (and I know just enough to get me by with most gearheads). There are people-skills salesmen who don't need to make a living on the likes of you. And there are green peas who know nothing. I reckon that most of the negative stigma of car salesmen comes from the green peas.

LAMRONH, if car salesmen were required to be ASE Certified and have more than eight years of practical automotive experience, you would be happy. 'Til then, ain't nothin' doin'. Maybe you should be happy that you can keep your green pea's commission check in your pocket.


Another salesman here got real excited the other day. He nearly stormed into my office to tell me about a new Camaro and that it'd have a big ol' supercharged V8. I mean, this came from a man who has no inclination to own a computer and would never use one if the dealership didn't have one. And there's a lotta people like that - some my age - who don't have access to the information we do. Think about it: we've been given a deluge of information on the Camaro by insiders and spy photographers. It's old news to us. It's so old to me that I wasn't excited about the official pictures. The problem is connected to a lack of information from GM (and it's not simply the Camaro). Our primary training comes from the brochures and playing with each model. Other than that, GM is worthless and the dealerships don't care to help. Add that to a lack of formal, paid training of people who don't even understand that no commission equals no paycheck and you get what you got before: a clueless bullring of salespeople shootin' the **** with a guy who has a pretty car.

Edit: Although GM DealerWorld provides us with information, there are sales managers who are just as uninterested to be on the computer as most old folks.

Unfortunately many of the old heads are the ones I speak of. The typical Chevy salesman was in his 50s and appeared to have been at the dealership since he got kicked out of junior high school. He did not have people skills and he did not have automotive knowledge. How those guys made a living is beyond me. Maybe they stuck up Stop-N-Robs on the way home from work.

The flip side was a local Dodge dealer who typically had about 10 under-25 sharks, white shirts, cigarettes, cruising constantly around the front door. If I see that at a dealer, I just drive through. Not interested.

Not interested in hyped-up young punks who know nothing about their product, not interested in dusty old fools who know nothing about their product.

The "elite" brands are little different, in my limited experience. I don't like the atmosphere at Lexus or Acura or BMW or Mercedes dealers. The last BMW saleshomie I spoke with told me that, just like the old days (I mean the '60s & '70s), BMW drivers today are knowledgeable enthusiasts with great driving skills.
Absurd.

Don't take this as my saying there are not good and knowledgeable salesmen out there. It's just that they are a small minority.
I worked with a great guy at a Ford dealer, he got a 92 Taurus Police Package ordered for me.
I had an excellent salesman at the local Chrysler dealer, where we bought Concordes and Intrepids for a while.
I ran into a very good Mazda salesman who put me in a nice 93 Protege LX. I didn't order it, but when I took delivery there was a sunroof. Sweet!

My problem is sorting through the 1000LBS of chaff to get to the 50LBS of wheat.

To me there's something fundamentally, badly wrong with an industry that puts such an overwhelming percentage of outright dopes on the lots to represent the corporation. It doesn't help that once finance etc. gets you into their evil offices, things usually get worse.

Most people hate, HATE!, going to car dealers.
They hate dealing with the sharks, they hate the games, they hate the lies, they hate the subterfuge.



There's just no excuse for such ignorance. All the salesmen have to do is go hang out at Safeway for 15 minutes every few weeks and flip through the C&Ds and MTs in the magazine racks.

There are a few dealers who make the effort to make their showrooms people-friendly, and those are the ones who I hope prosper over time.

Word gets out.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Ohhh...Im sure they have a pricing sheet on how to get people into that ideal doller per month catagory if they havent memorized it by now.

Again, I dont expect them to know the angle of recline of the front seats, but I expect Chevy dealers to know that there is a Camaro, production starts late this year, sales in 6 months.
Same goes for Volt. All Chevy dealers should have a Volt Countdown clock....
"Pluging Into the Future in: XXX Years, XXX Days, XXX Hrs, XXX Mins, XXX seconds.

Good points.

And your original post reminded me of why I did not buy from a certain dealership a couple of years back; the salesman actually told me that I was in error thinking that a Cobalt had better sound deadening than a Cavalier, and then he said I could order one with a V6.

Yup, time to go elsewhere.

Then you begin to realize that for the most part, these guys don't know about products they sell because they just aren't car guys. (There are a precious few who are, and one of them is the guy I buy from.) They don't care about what they sell so much as what they can do towards moving you into that higher monthly payment, or moving that '95 Mercedes that nobody wants off the used lot .

Finding a car salesman is like finding a good mechanic; it can be done, but it takes effort, study, and great care.

[espo19047]

I have been reading about all of the lousy salesman on this thread. Do any of you have any good stories to tell?

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by espo19047

I have been reading about all of the lousy salesman on this thread. Do any of you have any good stories to tell?

You want lousy?
Back in '98 (it's weird that I remember this, my memory usually goes back until sixth grade and then dead-ends), when we were looking for a truck, we went to this one GMC dealer. The salesman would not get off his damn cell phone for anything, my dad asked him a few questions and the guy actually asks him to wait a minute so he can finish the call.
Needless to say, we left and went to another dealer where the salesman was focused on us. That guy has sold us both the Sonoma and the Envoy, and we plan on buying more cars from him in the future.
And everyone knows about that damn crapyota dealer that called me for two weeks straight about that stupid corolla.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by espo19047

I have been reading about all of the lousy salesman on this thread. Do any of you have any good stories to tell?

Sure do.

Two years ago, the regular guy. Looking for a G5, no big option list, a 5 speed and a CD player, mostly. Moron that I am, gas mileage and reliability were at the top of the list even then, as well as the "fun to drive" factor.

Meet Paul on a Saturday, tell him what we want, and why. Point out that it will be HER daily driver, and not mine, I'm only making half the car payment. He immediately turns to her, and asks her what SHE wants as far as colour, upholstery, wheels, etc. go.

He delivers a Steel Blue one 4 days later, super price. And he asks what he can get for her besides a tank of gas. She asks for a Pontiac Racing jacket she saw in the Parts Department. He gets it, and leaves it on the front seat.

He asks me why I didn't butt in when I easily could have at ant time. I say, it's her car, and she makes the decisions, I only help pay for it. So he throws in two Sunfire floor mats. For the helluvit. I spent 3 hours after the sale talking about GM with him. He knows the product, he loves cars, and he understands what exporting jobs and our GDP means.

Car is still here, and Paul still sends handwritten letters to her asking how the car is, and not the dealership ones that are mass printed. Want to know how that makes her feel? And how dyed in the wool GM she is now?

[BryceStrong]

If I'm wrong, correct me. But:

Originally Posted by marinerbc

...super price.

Bribe.

She asks for a Pontiac Racing jacket she saw in the Parts Department. He gets it, and leaves it on the front seat.

Bribe.

...he throws in two Sunfire floor mats. For the helluvit.

Bribe.

Is that what it takes to be "dyed in the wool"? Paying customers to be happy isn't right... What happens if she receives none of those things the next go-around?