Bad situation with GTO lease turn-in

[351E]

Still can't believe this is happening. Had a 3-year lease (actually a SmartBuy) on an 04 GTO. Turned it in a few weeks ago, in perfect condition. I expected an appraisal when I turned the car in (as you'd get with a rental car turn in), before signing it over ... that way, the customer (me) and GM agree on the car's condition at that moment. The dealer wouldn't do that. GMAC has a third-party appraisal done about 3 weeks later. I felt uncomfortable about this, but nothing I could do. Left the car at the dealer and that was that.

I got GMAC's appraisal in the mail today. They say I owe a few hundred dollars for fender damage. GMAC posts pics on their web site. I looked, and almost fainted. Behind the headlight is a large, 10 inch diameter, deep dent with the paint scraped.

The dealer says they "just parked" the car and didn't do any damage to it. But I know I turned it in damage-free and had a witness with me, not that it counts for much. Bottom line is, no appraisal was done when I turned the car in. So going after the dealer is my word against theirs. There's no way for me to prove I turned the car in without the damage.

I called GMAC and blamed them for the poor procedure that puts days and weeks between the turn-in and appraisal. Otherwise, I have a dealer that I once trusted ... which either has an ethical issue (someone damaged the car and didn't admit it), or was careless in their handling of my car (for example, left it exposed to a third party such as a customer backing into it, snowplow, etc).

Even if I can get the dealer or GMAC to eat the cost of damage repair, they'll make me feel as if it's a gift. Therefore, this dealer will never get business from me again ... and I'll certainly never lease or SmartBuy through GMAC again.

Despicable situation to put customers through. It sure makes me want to rush right out and buy another new GM product to replace the GTO.

[Ed753]

I always thought that was a bad system, GM is bigger than that, they should have changed that long ago!

Last summer when I turned in my wife's Jeep. They gave it a thorough review, right in the service drive, took 10 minutes, he typed up a few things on his PC, printed a form, we both signed it and I was on my way, no "wait-n-worry" I couldn't have been happier. It was kind of funny, I keep my cars so, so, so nice, he was looking for anything, but couldn't find one thing, much less beyond allowable, and they accept a lot, damage-wise, in my opinion.

The way GM does the turn-in, where is the incentive for the people after your turn the car in to to give a crap!? If something happens, they are just going to mail YOU the bill! Moronic system, are you suppose to keep your collision on it, until you get your letter!?

[big swede]

I would do a complete walk-around with a video camera the next time. Another good reason why I will probably never lease a car.

[351E]

Originally Posted by big swede

I would do a complete walk-around with a video camera the next time. Another good reason why I will probably never lease a car.

I thought about that, actually, but what would it prove? Could have made the video at any time and doctored up the date stamp, they'd say. You'd need the dealer rep on the videotape affirming that you were turning in the car. I doubt they'd do it, because it's no more to ask the dealer to walk around the car with you. The dealers don't want anything to do with lease turn-ins, other than getting you into another car. The system is a joke. I think 99.9% of people would agree that an appraisal at turn-in is the only logical and reasonable policy. Anything less leaves customers exposed as I am. How hard will GM fight on the product and marketing side, just to pi$$ away customers over preventable incidents such as this?

[Ed753]

You shoot the video after you pick-up a local newspaper, and include in the video, untamperable date-stamp.

But again, you shouldn't have to go through this.

[Minnesota Nice]

Consumer satisfaction doesn't matter anymore. All these companies care about is making as much money as they can. They don't give two ***** about the people who line their pockets.

When I have a full-time income of my own, I hope things will have changed. I would gladly pay more money to get services done correctly and with my care in mind. I'm sick of being nothing more than just a faceless consumer who is nothing but green dollar bills to companies.

I really hope you work things out. Personally, I would've taken pictures of the car in the lot the DAY you returned it, just in case. Granted, we don't think of these things until bad things happen, but if this continues, you need to have your witness who was there step up and vouch, and shift the focus over to the fact that a LARGE amount of time elapsed between drop-off and appraisal.

[Minnesota Nice]

Consumer satisfaction doesn't matter anymore. All these companies care about is making as much money as they can. They don't give two ***** about the people who line their pockets.

When I have a full-time income of my own, I hope things will have changed. I would gladly pay more money to get services done correctly and with my care in mind. I'm sick of being nothing more than just a faceless consumer who is nothing but green dollar bills to companies.

I really hope you work things out. Personally, I would've taken pictures of the car in the lot the DAY you returned it, just in case. Granted, we don't think of these things until bad things happen, but if this continues, you need to have your witness who was there step up and vouch, and shift the focus over to the fact that a LARGE amount of time elapsed between drop-off and appraisal.

[espo19047]

Originally Posted by Minnesota Nice

Consumer satisfaction doesn't matter anymore. All these companies care about is making as much money as they can. They don't give two ***** about the people who line their pockets.

When I have a full-time income of my own, I hope things will have changed. I would gladly pay more money to get services done correctly and with my care in mind. I'm sick of being nothing more than just a faceless consumer who is nothing but green dollar bills to companies.

I really hope you work things out. Personally, I would've taken pictures of the car in the lot the DAY you returned it, just in case. Granted, we don't think of these things until bad things happen, but if this continues, you need to have your witness who was there step up and vouch, and shift the focus over to the fact that a LARGE amount of time elapsed between drop-off and appraisal.

My dealership does a walk around with the customer and records any damage and then they sign off on it. We don't have problems. I had a customer complain about damge on the rear fender. GM charged him $273. for it. We paid it for him and he was happy...
It is worth it to keep the guy. We also offer lease protect. For a couple of bucks a month you are protected for the first $5000 plus it waives security.

You can blame GM but as a dealer you need to step up for your customers if you want to keep them...

[GMCdriver]

That is bizzare.

My dealership does a walk around inspection of the vehicle at the time of drop-off.
It isn't the "official GMAC appraisal", that still takes place a while later, but it does confirm the condition of the vehicle when it was put into the dealer's custody/care.

[ChebbySalesDept]

As a dealer, you are either a "third party inspection dealer" or you actually do the condition reports.

We are a third party dealer. We advise the customer to take digital photos, video or any other way to document the drop off condition. This way they are protected. The dealer is supposed to exercise safe storage so drop offs do not get damaged.

We used to do the inspections but it became a real hassle. Customers would refuse to sign the condition report if we, the dealer, wouldn't eat the charges. Or they would say the damage isn't as bad as we thought it was. It was really very simple. If they refused to sign, we don't take the car.

Customers seem to forget one very important item. WE DIDN'T DAMAGE THE CAR! Own up to your responsibility for excess wear and tear. Read your lease/Smartbuy contract before you sign it.

In the GTO case, if the customer knew he wasn't getting a condition report and didn't have documented proof that there was no damage, he should have waited until he had video/photo proof before turning it in.

To say the dealer should eat it just to keep a good customer is a bunch of garbage. A good customer is trying to get someone else to pay for damage that he caused?

Long story short, if you don't agree with the policy/procedure that a particular dealer has in place, don't buy from that dealer. If you want a condition report and the dealer only offers third party, go to a dealer that has what you want. If it is a third party dealer, get proof before you drop off.

[351E]

Originally Posted by ChebbySalesDept

Long story short, if you don't agree with the policy/procedure that a particular dealer has in place, don't buy from that dealer. If you want a condition report and the dealer only offers third party, go to a dealer that has what you want. If it is a third party dealer, get proof before you drop off.

Dealer policy is irrelevant here. It's GMAC's policy that the dealers cannot perform the official appraisals. According to the dealers, that's because dealers were accepting turn-ins with excess wear and tear as a condition to get a customer into a new car. Even if the dealer walked around the car with me, there'd be nothing in writing. Right about now they'd say, "we must have missed that dent."

And I maintain that photos would have done nothing for me. No way to prove when they were taken. Interesting suggestion about putting the day's newspaper in the photo ... but even that can't prove the damage didn't occur between photo time and turn-in time or that the photos were not doctored up.

Heck, the dent was shown to be fresh in that many paint scuffs wiped right off. However, even with that, there's no way to prove it happened under the dealer's watch. Could have happened the day before I dropped it off.

Bottom line is, GMAC has a bad policy ... official appraisals need to be done when the car is turned in. The customer and GMAC would mutually sign off and it's out of the customer's hands. Your comment that I (the customer) am trying to get someone to pay for the damage I caused is precisely the issue here. I know the damage occurred after I turned the car in. Nevertheless, GM, GMAC, and the dealer make me feel like I have no integrity, by suggesting I'm not telling the truth and that I'd pawn my damage onto them. Slamming your customers' integrity is a surefire way to get them into a different brand/dealer next time around. Makes no difference if the damage bill is $3000 or $30. Sure, some customers indeed have no integrity. But sizing good customers to the least common denominator is a recipe for disaster for any business.

[ChebbySalesDept]

Originally Posted by 351E

Dealer policy is irrelevant here. It's GMAC's policy that the dealers cannot perform the official appraisals. According to the dealers, that's because dealers were accepting turn-ins with excess wear and tear as a condition to get a customer into a new car. Even if the dealer walked around the car with me, there'd be nothing in writing. Right about now they'd say, "we must have missed that dent."

And I maintain that photos would have done nothing for me. No way to prove when they were taken. Interesting suggestion about putting the day's newspaper in the photo ... but even that can't prove the damage didn't occur between photo time and turn-in time or that the photos were not doctored up.

Heck, the dent was shown to be fresh in that many paint scuffs wiped right off. However, even with that, there's no way to prove it happened under the dealer's watch. Could have happened the day before I dropped it off.

Bottom line is, GMAC has a bad policy ... official appraisals need to be done when the car is turned in. The customer and GMAC would mutually sign off and it's out of the customer's hands. Your comment that I (the customer) am trying to get someone to pay for the damage I caused is precisely the issue here. I know the damage occurred after I turned the car in. Nevertheless, GM, GMAC, and the dealer make me feel like I have no integrity, by suggesting I'm not telling the truth and that I'd pawn my damage onto them. Slamming your customers' integrity is a surefire way to get them into a different brand/dealer next time around. Makes no difference if the damage bill is $3000 or $30. Sure, some customers indeed have no integrity. But sizing good customers to the least common denominator is a recipe for disaster for any business.

Again, the biggest issue as to why dealers don't want to do the inspections (and they have that choice) is disaggreements with the customer at the time of the report. I may think the damage is approx. $350 and then the customer says it should only be about $150. Then they threaten NOT to take the new car unless you "lie" on the condition report or they want you (the dealer) to make the price of the new car lower to make up for the damage they (the customer) caused.

Dealers just don't want to deal with the hassle of the whole thing. If the lease/Smartbuy you chose was with GMAC, we both have to deal with the policy.

You should see what most outside lease companies charged. The deal on the GTO is a deal, by far.

[Karch]

Infiniti has you call them prior to the turn in date, and they send someone to your home or business, at your convenience, and evaluate the car.

You then have a choice of paying for any excess wear or damages, or having it fixed.