UPDATE 6/21!: GM Cutting Another Division?

[PocoToro]

Just my thinking..............

If any brand should go it's Pontiac


Buick was known for luxury and performance .......... The Regal/Grand National.........so if you bring back the Grand National mindset, that can cover Pontiac


GMC Trucks should be pushed up market, NO STRIPPED WORK TRUCKS. But not to Cadillac level. Chevy Trucks should not have leather available but GMC it should be standard. Also any Hummer worth saving could be sold as the "GMC Hummer" just one model and Hummer becomes a model not a brand.


YES, add Saturn to the mix they need more dealers, GM might not need more dealers but Saturn does........

Saab becomes a "European Cadillac"


In the end you would have.....
Chevrolet, Chevrolet Trucks
Buick, Saturn, GMC
Cadillac, Saab


If they are run more as three brands with each logo having a different personality you could have the right mix with little overlap.

[PocoToro]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I would also support changing Saturn to Opel.

I like this idea............instant "euro" brand

[slade'man]

What about cutting not only GMC but Pontiac as well. Combine Saturn and Buick.

Saturn/Buick
Chevy
Cadillac/Saab

Assuming Hummer is sold.

[CadiEldo67]

TriShield;1430883If GM gets real about the reality of their place in the market and are serious about staying out of bankruptcy they will CUT ALL THREE BRANDS ASAP.

On paper, I agree with you, this does need to be done. But its got the emotion of a lot of people mixed in, which makes for a messy situation. And I would have a hard time with B-P-G being sold/killed while Saturn stays. I don't know what the best solution would be, but I hope GM figures it out, and soon.

Honestly, I think that Saturn is the lame duck out, fewer dealers, less brand recognition. Sure, Pontiac may be all re-badges, but there is not one vehicle that isn't in GM. Every vehicle has a mechanical twin, and that makes the amputation of a select brand a bit more difficult, one has to consider the buyers that would be soured, the development money lost, all that stuff.

I can see GMC disappearing soon, even if that is GM's second best selling brand, it would be the most practical to get rid of.

If Pontiac is going to stay around, I'd hate to see it soldier on the way that it is. I'm thinking the badge that was shown on the G8 Concept should be introduced, flip-keys throughout the lineup, a new marketing strategy, a new way of thinking. The G8 is an amazing car, and if there was a G6 that was half as good, I think Pontiac would be more than in the clear.

If Saturn was to merge with Buick-Pontiac, then something would need to be done with the Solstice/Sky, even going as far as different engine displacements. The Vue would be completely relevant in a B-P-S lineup, as the Pontiac Torrent/GMC Terrain would be no more. The Astra would complement the G4 well, hopefully the G4 would be RWD/AWD. There would be no need for the Outlook (GM would be left with 2 Lambda crossovers) The Aura would also be relevant, although would probably overlap with the LaCrosse (hopefully renamed Invicta). Saturn should have a Hybrid Trim level, while Pontiac would have a Performance trim, while Buick had a "super luxury trim"

Saturn - plain old "Hybrid"
Pontiac - GXP
Buick - Limited

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by TriShield

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/19/news...ion=2008061909

All signs point to no.

That's a very disturbing article. I've got a headache after reading that.

As bad as it looks, I will still keep hope until the end.

[Nasty_SS]

Originally Posted by Motownr

Sure it's not Saab?

Saturn?

BPG has issues, but GMC is a money maker.

money maker for a little longer...truck sales with these gas prices..GMC should fall ,they already have chevy trucks.

[oachalon]

Why do you guys keep wanting to change saturns name to opel. Havent you guys come to the conclusion opel doesnt sell here. As soon as customers find out its an opel they dont buy it.

The saturn L an opel...oh its an opel, im not buying it. Saturn Astra oh exactly the same as opel astra im not buying that. Opels do not sell here so all you would be causing is saturn to lose even more sales. The aura looks like an opel but is not an opel so its sales a hurt a little cause it was mentioned its like an opel(sales are finally increasing).

OPEL DOES NOT SELL IN AMERICA SO STOP PUSHING FOR OPEL TO BE HERE.

You can use opel platforms thats fine nothing wrong with them. The vue is an opel platform but has been americanized so its fine. The aura originally an opel platform but tweaked and simplified to be better. Look at the saturn astra it is outdated with older technology. No wonder why its not selling, opel is behind in technology. A small ecotec with a timing belt that gets bad gas mileage. No one wants that.

Opel platforms good when america gets their hands on it and simplifies it and not staying an overcomplicated german pile of crap. Opel motors and technology garbage. Take the platforms tweak them and use american engines and technology aka CTS, aura, g6, malibu, etc. Leave saturn saturn. Now putting saturn with saab and cadillac not a bad idea. I think cadillac saturn and saab would mix well together.

Saturn can be tweaked opels to make them better.
Pontiac can be holden because they do build fantastic cars,
Buick is getting on the right path with the Enclave and hopefully the new lacrosse.

Chevrolet with the new malibu and new cobalt is good to go. Heck keep the w-body and just update it for the Impala. The w-body is a very good platform, no reason to kill it. Its reliable and strong and does well in crash tests. Tweak it to get more leg room and make a nice looking car and you are set. Why kill a platform that is so reliable. Just make little changes. People keep saying gm keeps their platforms too long yada yada yada. What do you think honda and toyota does. Their platforms havent really changed they just keep tweaking them a little bit. Why get rid of something that has been so reliable.

Cadillac just has to keep doing what they are doing.

If i really was going to kill a car company or sell a car company it would be saab. I dont think they should but if they had to it should be them.

Pontiac needs to kill the torrent and make a small rwd sedan.
Saab needs a real sports car(audi r8 type).
Chevrolet needs a 40mpg vehicle
Saturn needs better advertising and a real ion replacement. (their new commericals are horrible). Saturn needs all hyrbid options a 40mpg ion replacement and something to compete against yaris and honda fit. Look at honda that should saturn but higher scale more like acura.
Buick needs a new lacrosse and lucerne and hybrids
Cadillac needs to update the STS.

[2648562]

I've literally sat here for the past five minutes shaking my head. This is incredible. Cut GMC? Pontiac? Buick? Come on they're all fixable. If they're going to axe a division then Wagoner, Lutz, and the entire board should resign NOW. That's not the kind of news I was expecting here tonight.

[Griffen427]

I would have to say that GMC needs to go as an actual division. It is a complete rebadge company - has been from the start. With the Traverse coming out, that makes the company a 100% rebadge. Buick and Pontiac at least have unique styling, interiors, etc. Plus the new LaCrosse comes out soon.

Saab should've been sold a while ago, and Hummer as well.

[derrado]

Before I continue, I just want to personally fire upon the idea that is floated regularly... that is, the idea of changing the Saturn name to Opel. No. Opel means nothing to probably 99% of the American population. It does not have cache because it is different. Saturn has a problem with redefining its brand image, there is no doubting that, but spending a ridiculous amount of money rebranding all of Saturn's operations AND creating consumer awareness about a new nameplate is probably one of the stupidest ideas I've heard. Especially considering Saturn is a reasonably new and sometimes unrecognised nameplate.

Ok, I got that off my chest. Now for the topic.

I was surprised to read this article. I honestly thought that after selling off Hummer, GM would stop contemplating the demise of another brand.

Yes, it seems silly to cut GMC considering it posts excellent sales and is very profitable (due to the negligible cost of rebranding Chevys). On the flipside, though, it removes some clutter in the GM menagerie. It also allows for the money usually spent on GMC R&D and advertising to go to other brands. It kills off a marque that is likely to see dwindling sales from here on (even if it switches to all crossovers, GMC is not going to see massive sales any more). Looking at it logically, GMC makes the most sense as GM's next kill. There aren't many independent GMC dealers anyway, especially as GM has been pushing the BPG dealer channell. Was this simply a devious, covert plan to remove future conflicts, like GM faced when they killed off Oldsmobile?

The new CAFE items make Pontiac's future role as a niche sports player quite unlikely. Therefore, its future is called into question. But really, Pontiac is vastly more flexible than GMC. You can't add small cars to GMC to bump up average fuel efficiency. You can with Pontiac. Also, if GMC bites the dust, Pontiac can grab some of its models.

So, I feel that if GM kills GMC, Pontiac will survive and probably see a 50% badge-engineered line-up. Heck, it could even become a full-line marque. Is that what most of us would prefer? No. But at least it means that such a historic marque won't leave us like Oldsmobile did. I could imagine Pontiac and Saturn overlapping a bit, and if they chuck Saturn into the BPG channell.. well, I don't know who will be pushed upmarket or downmarket. Maybe Pontiac will be a niche sport brand?

Oh, and Buick isn't going anywhere. Thank you, China. I used to hate Buick (especially as it survived and Oldsmobile didn't) but with the new Invicta and Enclave, it's actually going somewhere.

By the way, someone remarked on Oldsmobile's death being because of the "old" in the name. I agree. Sure, it wasn't the number one reason, but it was a decisive player.

[Nasty_SS]

Originally Posted by slade'man

What about cutting not only GMC but Pontiac as well. Combine Saturn and Buick.

Saturn/Buick
Chevy
Cadillac/Saab

Assuming Hummer is sold.

what has saab done.....besides being a useless drain..sell them and turn saturn into pontiac ....giving the g8 and g8 sport truck to chevy. also GMC ....chevy can sell the trucks too.

[gardnet1]

Honestly, I can't buy this story. GMC has consistently been the second most profitable division for GM since the late 70's. If the story would have pitted Saab vs. Pontiac or maybe even Buick; then I would have believed it.

GM core brands have to be Chevy, Cadillac, GMC, Saturn (too much invested). Hummer, Saab, Pontiac & Buick are all in the shark tank...At least Buick and Pontiac have new product or some on the way soon.

[FenwickHockey65]

I say kill Hummer, kill Saab. Seriously, I see less people at Saab dealerships than I do in the truck/SUV lot at Chevy dealerships.

[gardnet1]

Originally Posted by PocoToro

I like this idea............instant "euro" brand

If you are going to rename Saturn; go with "Miyagi" or some other japanese sounding name. That will sell.

[Kennyboy]

Who is willing to be Hummer with today's gas prices? The Indians, The Chinese, The Russians, The Germans, The Japanese, the Koreans, the Mexicans, the Brazilians, the Singaporeans, the Mafia, etc.? It's sad to see a once presitge brand being tossed around like a piece of toy.