UPDATE 6/21!: GM Cutting Another Division?

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by luvapontiac

Why would they want to kill Pontiac over Saturn?

That's easy:

1. Selling Opels as Saturns is a cheap way to bring different product. GM has no money to invest in new product for Pontiac.

2. The only Pontiac that sells like hotcakes is the Vibe. Solstice and G8 are niche vehicles at best, as would be an alpha based sedan/coupe.

3. Saturn are mostly (all?) stand alone stores that would cost a lot more to close than shutting one of the brands in the combined BPG.

[vette61]

Originally Posted by Rocket 88

Buicks don't sell. GM probably sells more Saturns... which people under 80 tend to buy. Get rid of Buick and stop pretending GM needs two luxury divisions. Try running just one properly.



You think GM can operate a division to compete against a specific rival? There are probably 12 people in North America who cross shopped Buick and Lexus this year.

I DOUBT THAT,THE ENCLAVE IS SURE TO GET SOME PREVIOUS LEXUS SUV OWNERS. AND MUNDANE AS THEY MAY BE THE LACROSSE AND THE LUCERNE SELL PRETTY WELL. AT LEAST BUICK IS DISTINGUISHING ITSELF FROM THE REST OF GM. THEY SEEM TO HAVE SOME GREAT LOOKING VEHICLES COMING UP. I DO FEEL THAT WITHIN TIME AND A LOT OF FOCUS.....THEY CAN FIGHT LEXUS.

[Tstag]

Originally Posted by vette61

LUXURY AS A EUROPEAN THING? IF THATS THE CASE,HOW IS IT THAT CADILLAC HELD THE NUMBER ONE POSITION IN THE WORLD AS THE BEST SELLING AND RECOGNIZED LUXURY CAR FOR ABOUT 60 YEARS? NO OTHER LUXURY CAR HAS SOLD MORE CARS THAN CADILLAC. I ALSO GREW UP WITH BURT AND THE TRANS AM.............BUT PREFERRED THE CAMARO Z28. BOTH SATURN AND PONTIAC CAN GO. GM HAS PLAYED WITH PEOPLES INTELIGENCE FOR TOO LONG. ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES IS THAT LINCOLN COMMERCIAL IN THE LATE 90'S WHERE PEOPLE COME OUT OF A RESTAURANT AND GET CONFUSED ABOUT WHICH CAR THEY CAME IN

Firsty please don't think I'm attacking Caddilac. I'm just trying to explain something about European taste. Look up the sales figures for Caddilac in Europe. Last time I looked they were lucky if they sold 10 cars in one month! I think the reason Caddilac struggles is because Europeans associate American cars with high volume value for money products. The Japanese even struggle here Lexus only sell 40,000 cars a year here and they have been selling cars in Europe for TWENTY years.

But GM needs to sell more of it's US models here as ultimately the US market becomes even more competitive. Pontiac is a sporty brand and we tend to look favourably at muscle cars. Ford's biggest mistake was not bringing the Mustang here. It would have sold in healthy numbers. So why not recast Pontiac as a Subaru beater. I think it would sell well here. They would sll more than Caddilac does at least.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by Tstag

BUT Pontiac makes sense. We all grew up on the Pontiac Trans Am made famous by Burt Reynolds. So why not send us a Subaru chasing Pontiac instead of a Caddy or a Hummer? In Europe Pontiac may actualy fly. It's one of the few US brands that could.

So please don't kill Pontiac GM. Kill something else.....

I find the idea of Pontiac going global to be very interesting. It almost doesn't suit the brand, but I'm sure that many countries would embrace it. The only thing would be the competition of say the Chevy Lumina, or the Vauxhall VXR8? and other rebadges of the Holden Commodore being sold right next to the G8, in reality it wouldn't work with that car.

[jspillers]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

Killing GMC while making money on pure rebadges would be silly...

Firebird=Camaro
GTO=Chevelle
G8=Impala

What???? Silly is not knowing what the heck you are talking about.
Vibe should have never come out in the first place? Really dumb... you obviously know nothing. You try getting 24 calls in the first 2 days of listing one. HAHAHA

I love ignorant people. They get me all mad and make me so... GRRR!!!

[psycho]

As for Hummer owner!!! THAT SUCKS!

[ksr]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

How many people cross shopped BMW and Mercedes with Lexus in its infancy. I'll guess not many.

Brands can be reborn you know.

Buick can be reborn. Heck, one killer model can do the trick. The Enclave has done very well, but it's not a high-volume car. But it shows that they can sell good Buicks.

Buick's overall numbers are low, but they're only selling 3 models. The Lucerne has sold in decent volume.

I think the problem at GM is that they always talk about positioning Buick as a Lexus fighter. I think this shows either hubris at GM, or just being out-of-touch.

Lexus is a premium, top-notch luxury brand. GM seems reluctant to admit that. The only GM division that can or should compete with Lexus is Cadillac. I know people that likely won't ever buy a Cadillac, but who at least give it a look while also looking at Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, and Infiniti. They do not even consider Buick. It isn't in that league in public perception (even though the Enclave is in that league in reality).

GM management needs to admit the obvious. Lexus is a luxury make that is on a par (in my mind) or exceeds (in most minds) Cadillac. It is not a middle-of-the-road, near-luxury brand. They need to compete with Toyota's big gun with their big gun, Cadillac.

Position Buick to compete with Lincoln, Chrysler (what's left of it), higher-end Toyotas, Nissans, or VWs. Buick should build premium quality family cars, not luxury cars.

[Z064ever]

They should not cut any brands, or follow any of the so-called experts advice.
When GM cuts a brand, by dropping support all the existing brands suffer. Witness the loss of Olds and not supporting the rental fleets. Loss in market share results in the mass media touting the Japanese brands as taking a bigger market share, and the public loses more confidence in the GM brands.
All the ridiculous comments by saying its okay to lose market share (loosely translated losing American jobs in the factories, engineering, white collar jobs, and etc.) because they can maintain price and resale value goes out the window with all the huge rebates and incentives being dished out.
In other words closing brands, letting the Japanese get the rental fleets, and doling out huge incentives to get people to buy GM is a losing deal. It is the enemies of GM and America that are winning with the strategy promoted by the "experts," and the enemies of America.

[508silverado]

chevy appears to have a better looking product, of course that is up to a person's individual opinion. the quality look, goes to the chevy, hands down. i personally like both, but when i went to get my new truck, i looked at both the chevy and the gmc, and almost an identical truck, but when i took a close look, the chevy far surpased the gmc.

[63impala]

OK, how about this option for GM:

Sell ONE single large car like the Lucerne as THE Buick...available at select Cadillac dealers.

Sell ONE single large truck and call it THE GMC...This is your luxury truck.

Sell ONE single sedan like the G8 and call it THE Pontiac...

Bring back Oldsmobile from the dead. Sell one car and call it the OLDS...Not Oldsmobile. Olds Cutlass, anyone?

Keep Chevy as the bargain brand...no leather-seated Impalas or Silverados anymore. You want leather? Buy the Buick or the GMC.

Get rid of the Caddy trucks...PLEASE. Make them all GMCs.

Saturn goes head-to-head with the foreign brands. Sell 'em as the European offering.

Saab becomes the upscale division at the Saturn store. Saab doesn't get sport-utes and crossovers, only CARS. Let Saturn field things like the Vue.

Hummer...sell it or make just one Hummer model.

This way you can keep the brands intact and reduce model overlap. I would hope that a plan like this would get due consideration.

[smitty912]

This is beginning to look really serious, MSNBC has the possibility of GM cutting brands as front page news.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25566241/

General Motors Corp. may get rid of some brands, speed the introduction of small cars from other markets and make further white-collar job cuts as it tries to deal with a shrinking U.S. auto market.

Over the years, analysts have suggested cutting or selling the Buick, Saab or Saturn brands, perhaps jettisoning them like GM did with Oldsmobile in 2004. Chevrolet and Cadillac remain the company’s strongest sellers.

[LeSabre]

Forget cutting brands, cut WAGONER!!
New leadership is needed NOW!!!

[babybluebass03]

I sell PBG as well as Cadillac and Chevy and I do enjoy the PBG lineup more as far as overall styling and customer excitement, however, there really is too much overlap even in our own lot. Having G5's next to Cobalts and Lucernes and DTS and Malibus and G6 and of course Chevy Truck as a whole next to our GMC anything. It all gets repetitive and then having to try to upsell one vs another is just useless. I don't know what they have in mind but if GM wants to keep a truck company, I say they kill the Chevy Truck division and keep GMC as their flagship "Professional Grade" company.

[Tstag]

If GM needs to raise cash fast by selling a brand, then realistically is Vauxhall/ Opel the only part of GM that could realistically raise the cash to save the US business?

Scary though? Yes. Likely? Er......it probably is worth $15 billion dollars.....

[jry]

Wow, who would imagine the dust settling at the Ren Cen and GM emerging with just Chevy and Caddy?
Thats like the Asian business model, Toyota and Lexus, Nissan and Infinity, Honda and Acura. Heck, its almost like Ford and Lincoln except that Mercury is still around.
The think with the Enclave is that Three other divisions are now selling vehicles off the same platform and the Chevy version has more HP. Ouch. Dump Saturn? Heck, keep it. Keep the Sky, dump the ugly cousin (solstice) Put the G8 into Saturn with a Saturn face and tail, put the G6 into Chevy and kill the brand. Move the Enclave, with all of its quiet tuning, into Caddy and call that a day. One good vehicle doesn't support a whole nameplate. GMC? Goners too. The sad part is in losing two heritage monikers. I am really not too big a fan of this plan. IMO, i am pretty sure that once you do this, you'll turn a whole bunch of loyal buyers loose to foreign competitors.