UPDATE 6/21!: GM Cutting Another Division?

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Buickman

and in the minds of others as well...

"I can't thank you enough for sending The Plan. It is clear and logical. Implementation would be relatively easy and I have little doubt, based on our customer surveys, that such a program would be effective." Art Spinella, CNWMR

"Frankly, your twenty points could not have made any more sense." Gitas Jamekis, John Crane Inc.

"Wow, Jim, this is amazing. Some of these ideas might just work, by God. And Mark LaNeve dismissed this? I have looked at the website, and there is a ton of interesting stuff in there." Dan Neil, Los Angeles Times

"Everything makes perfect sense in its appropriateness and simplicity." Ed Garsten, Detroit News

"So, the legend grows." Ed Lapham, Automotive News

"I think you hit the nail on the head." Ed Wright, GM Plant Manager, retired.

"It is a blessing to hear your thoughts about GM. Being a Nissan dealer, I have watched the company do a 180 turnaround because of vision and dynamic leadership." Ben Keras

"You remind me a little of the legendary Ed Cole." Robert Harless, Preferred Media

"First of all, let me say that I think you’re doing everyone a great service." Jason Stoddard, Centric

"Jim, just read your plan to return GM to Greatness. It all makes sense but how do we get the brass at GM to pay attention?" David Bruckman, Clay Matthews Auto Group

"Rick ran GMNAO directly for four years and indirectly for two more: what you see at GMNAO today is a direct result of his strategy and actions." Gary Lapidus, Goldman Sachs

""I will gladly put your name on my proxy." GMAC Branch Manager

"I think it is the best thing to have happen to GM." Anonymous, Bellagio Resort

"Buickman - Who knows more about selling cars than just about anybody." Jerry Flint, Forbes Magazine

Well, since you're here, what do you think of my reorganization plan?

Sell Saab and Hummer.

Chervrolet becomes a single retail channel.

Pontiac, GMC, and Saturn become a retail channel, with Pontiac and Saturn sourcing all of its products from Holden and Opel.

Buick and Cadillac become a retail channel.

[vette61]

are you guys dense? the only division gm has worth noticing is cadillac. allowing pontiac to have whatever chevy gets is slowly killing chevy. not allowing chevy to have a g8 variant and giving the el camino to pontiac is suicide. it just shows the stupidity that the higher up at gm have. pretty soon you'll see a pontiac version of the corvette. you all have loyalty to gm and so do ibut honestly.................they don't know what they are doing. the brand to knock bmw is chevy and cadillac. that hits them from both ends upper price and lower price. pontiac is a joke to bimmer aficionados. chevy with its abundant performance past and the corvette and camaro and even the malibu is more of a threat to bmw than pontiac will ever be. yet gm thinks it can make a bimmer fighter out of pontiac. wake up!

[96_impala_ss]

Originally Posted by eaton53

The G8 and G8 ST's are rebadged Holdens.
The G6 and G5 are rebadged Chevrolets.
The Solstice is a rebadged Opel.
The Vibe is a turd. Flush it.

There's nothing at Pontiac or Saturn (or Vauxhall for that matter) that couldn't be a Chevy, Opel or Holden. They're sold everywhere already so make them global brands. And just say no to rebadges!!

The new GM still covers every segment, everywhere... it just does it with only 5 brands instead of 13.

As for Saab, forget it. Make the stunning Torana, put Saab's tech into it and here's your new 9-3 / G6... as a Holden.

Correction:
The G8 is a rebadged Holden Commodore
The G8 ST is a rebadged Holden Ute
The G5 is a rebadged Chevy Cobalt
The Vibe is a Toyota Matrix with a different skin
The Solstice is NOT a rebadged Opel. The Solstice came out before the Opel GT. The Saturn Sky is a rebadged Solstice.
The only true unique car to Pontiac is the G6. The car is not a rebadge of anything. Its a SHARED PLATFORM with the Chevy Malibu, the Saab 9-3 and the Saturn Aura as well as some Opel/Vauxhalls in Europe

I agree with you on the no rebadges but they rebadge Opel into Vauxhall in Britain because they cant kill off Vauxhall since it has British history and Opel doesnt sell as much as Vauxhall there. I dont know if some of you realize this but half of Holden is rebadged Daewoos. The small and midsize cars Holden sells are Daewoos.

The Daewoo into Chevy rebadge was a bad move. Outside the U.S. Chevy stands for cheap ass cars.. Korean cars.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Well, since you're here, what do you think of my reorganization plan?

Sell Saab and Hummer.

Chervrolet becomes a single retail channel.

Pontiac, GMC, and Saturn become a retail channel, with Pontiac and Saturn sourcing all of its products from Holden and Opel.

Buick and Cadillac become a retail channel.

I think it is okay. if we sell anything, do it without the banks advise. hell if we don't know what our stuff is worth, who does? might think Pontiac tho should have an American flavor, Saturn really doesn't amtter as they have no identity anyway.

[DonRobbie]

Originally Posted by TriShield

GM will screw them with bankruptcy just like they're screwing HUMMER dealerships right now and just like they screwed themselves.

The second answer is in this thread, I suggest you read.

If GM was going to file wouldn't it have made sense to have the US divisions file some time back and to have held on to all the profitable "side" businesses (Allison, the stakes in foreign automakers, etc) to keep the overall business moving forward. Corporations send subsidiaries into BK all the time. Instead they have sold off the parts of the company that turned a profit in order to subsidize the portion that does not. I don't think they will file unless there is no other choice (and that's still a ways down the road).

[LucheySchoe]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Sell Saab or shut it down. What value does it have? Such a small niche and a bad purchase from the start. Who would buy a Saab?

Me. You've obviously never drove or owned a Saab automobile. They have great product in the pipeline (9-5, 9-4X, 9XHybrid) and several in development now to complete a full vehicle line up.

Saab is what Oldsmobile aspired to be. A near luxury sporting vechicle that will appeal to the import car buyer.

[guitarlix]

GMC and Saturn are the first brands that need to go.

Hummer is a luxury brand that got mismanaged, but it still has potential even in current market conditions. What Hummer is lacking is product.

Then it's a toss up between Buick and Pontiac. Of the two, I believe Pontiac is the weaker brand.

Basically, Chevy and Cadillac stay. Everything else needs to trimmed somehow or changed in focus.

[Elvisuperman]

I don't understand how you can say Pontiac is a weaker brand than Buick...in North America Pontiac sells better than Buick

In public perception, Buick is an old man's car. Pontiac has never had that reputation, more people associate it with performance than any other GM brand...with the possible exception of the "King" brand, Chevrolet.

Maybe in China Buick is a big seller...but we are not talking about China, we are talking about North America. I have never, ever seen a young adult or teenager (less than 30 years old) in Canada purchase a Buick. (But I am not saying it hasn't happened) Like it or not, this age demographic is the one that matters for the next 15-20 years and Buick is not on their cars to buy list...but I am pretty sure a Pontiac might be.

[vette61]

If Buick Can Get The Mix Right They Can Become A Viable Lexus Fighter,witness The Enclave An Excelent Vehicle That Is Selling Pretty Well And Gm Has The Park Ave In China Which Can Probably Compete Against The Lexus 400 Series If Done Right. There Needs To Be Changes At Gm Cadillac ,the Malibu ,the Enclave,the Camaro Are All Steps In The Right Direction. Giving The El Camino To Pontiac Is Not. Front Wheel Drive Impalas Are Not. As Many Here Have Said,does Gm Need A Clone Of Chevy?

[vcs2600]

GM needs to eliminate about half their products and dealerships.

The complicated way of doing this would be to merge all of their so-called "sales channels" down into a single Mega-Brand that contains Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, and GMC products with no overlapping vehicles.

The easy way to do that is to just axe the whole Pontiac/Buick/GMC channel.

GM,being short of cash and brainpower, will probably just take the easy road.

[Rocket 88]

Originally Posted by Elvisuperman

I don't understand how you can say Pontiac is a weaker brand than Buick...in North America Pontiac sells better than Buick

In public perception, Buick is an old man's car.

Maybe in China Buick is a big seller...but we are not talking about China, we are talking about North America.

Buicks don't sell. GM probably sells more Saturns... which people under 80 tend to buy. Get rid of Buick and stop pretending GM needs two luxury divisions. Try running just one properly.

Originally Posted by vette61

If Buick Can Get The Mix Right They Can Become A Viable Lexus Fighter...

You think GM can operate a division to compete against a specific rival? There are probably 12 people in North America who cross shopped Buick and Lexus this year.

[luvapontiac]

Why would they want to kill Pontiac over Saturn? Saturn is lame and has not been around that long. All Pontiac needs is some new cars without the stupid G name and they would sell like hotcakes. A Firebird, GTO, Solstice, G8 and Grand Prix/G6 hybrid lineup would save Pontiac. I think Pontiac has too much history and tradition to throw away. BIG MISTAKE to kill Pontiac over Saturn, GMC, Daewoo or Hummer. Even Buick for that matter. I see tons of Pontiacs on the road but not too many Buicks.

[Tstag]

It's funny as a Brit I have a different perspective on this. At the moment GM is trying to flog Europeans Hummer and Caddy. Well it's daft frankly. With sky high petrol prices only footballers and celebs would consider a Hummer. And with brands like BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Jaguar and Land Rover then why would we buy a Caddy? Frankly Europeans don't share the view that Americans do good luxury cars. Rather snobishly they see this as a European thing. Even Lexus struggles here.

BUT Pontiac makes sense. We all grew up on the Pontiac Trans Am made famous by Burt Reynolds. So why not send us a Subaru chasing Pontiac instead of a Caddy or a Hummer? In Europe Pontiac may actualy fly. It's one of the few US brands that could.

So please don't kill Pontiac GM. Kill something else.....

[vette61]

Originally Posted by Tstag

It's funny as a Brit I have a different perspective on this. At the moment GM is trying to flog Europeans Hummer and Caddy. Well it's daft frankly. With sky high petrol prices only footballers and celebs would consider a Hummer. And with brands like BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, Jaguar and Land Rover then why would we buy a Caddy? Frankly Europeans don't share the view that Americans do good luxury cars. Rather snobishly they see this as a European thing. Even Lexus struggles here.

BUT Pontiac makes sense. We all grew up on the Pontiac Trans Am made famous by Burt Reynolds. So why not send us a Subaru chasing Pontiac instead of a Caddy or a Hummer? In Europe Pontiac may actualy fly. It's one of the few US brands that could.

So please don't kill Pontiac GM. Kill something else.....

LUXURY AS A EUROPEAN THING? IF THATS THE CASE,HOW IS IT THAT CADILLAC HELD THE NUMBER ONE POSITION IN THE WORLD AS THE BEST SELLING AND RECOGNIZED LUXURY CAR FOR ABOUT 60 YEARS? NO OTHER LUXURY CAR HAS SOLD MORE CARS THAN CADILLAC. I ALSO GREW UP WITH BURT AND THE TRANS AM.............BUT PREFERRED THE CAMARO Z28. BOTH SATURN AND PONTIAC CAN GO. GM HAS PLAYED WITH PEOPLES INTELIGENCE FOR TOO LONG. ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES IS THAT LINCOLN COMMERCIAL IN THE LATE 90'S WHERE PEOPLE COME OUT OF A RESTAURANT AND GET CONFUSED ABOUT WHICH CAR THEY CAME IN

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by Rocket 88

You think GM can operate a division to compete against a specific rival? There are probably 12 people in North America who cross shopped Buick and Lexus this year.

How many people cross shopped BMW and Mercedes with Lexus in its infancy. I'll guess not many.

Brands can be reborn you know.