UPDATE 6/21!: GM Cutting Another Division?

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by iluvcamaros

Trucks are not the future. GMC is trucks. It should be milked for all its worth, but they need to start preparing now for a 2015-2020 shutdown.

Kill Saturn. No money or time to build its brand awareness. Enough 2nd chances for this money sucking division already.

Give Pontiac the Opels and Holdens. Pontiac has always wanted to go Euro and I say let them.

Buick, suprisingly, has a strong reputation for quality and reliability. All it lacks is the bold, elegant styling that was once its trademark. The Enclave's strong sales prove how easily Buick could be brought back. This brand could be saved with good products unlike Saturn (or Oldsmobile for that matter).

Ding! Ding! Ding!

If it's gotta be, then Hummer, GMC, Saturn and Saab go.

Pontiac gets all Holden and Opel products, but they must be built in North America. Importing them is a loser.

Sell Saab and Hummer to the Indians.

Buick aligns with the Chinese product.

What this does is nearly eliminate rebadges entirely.... at most you end up with 2 versions of something, which is reasonable. Less versions = more $$$ to concentrate on the ones you have left. Also, closing down Saturn will cost very little money or sales.

[member12]

I agree....if they do a stupid move like sell Hummer, then they need to hang on to GMC.

If they are really going to invest money into making Buick a real competitor (and by a real competitor, I mean a Cadillac-like transformation, including RWD models that the American consumer deserves), then it should probably be Pontiac.


The thing is that Saturn is taking the place of Pontiac and Buick on brand level- sorty of sporty, sort of upscale.

Pair Saturn with GMC, get rid of Pontiac and Buick, and pair Hummer with Saab and Cadillac. Chevrolet continues to be stand alone.

If Pontiac is to stay, then it needs to be aligned with Holden products overseas (only the good ones). Saturn is aligned with Opel in Europe. Buick can probably dish out some good products from GM's middle east and asian markets. Chevrolet is supposed to be a world brand, so they are safe (but why the hell separate the Corvette and Camaro nameplate overseas? STUPID).

GMC is all rebadges, which makes them cheap....but they do sell when the economy isn't doing badly. GMC has a lot of history in America, like Jeep and Mercury, except with better products. I'd be careful about cutting it. Gas prices are more likely to be back to "normal" in a couple of years than they are to double.

I think Buick and Pontiac are extremely vulnerable. The stand alone GMC dealerships can easily pick up Saab, Cadillc or Saturn and probably sell almost as many cars. The Acadia is hot right now, and the Duramax products are still extremely popular (esp now that the Super Duty is a super diesel guzzler). I belive when the new 4.5L diesels come on line, the Yukon and Sierra will be in higher demand. THE CANYON AND ENVOY NEED AN UPDATE....ESPECIALLY NOW THAT GAS IS HIGH!!!!


Would anyone really miss Pontiac? The G8 is a great product, but it could easily be transfered into a Chevy Caprice. The G6 is overshadowed by the Saturn Aura and Malibu....except that little coupe is pretty hot. The G5 is a Cobalt and GM can supplement the Sky sales with a Saab or Chevrolet roadster just as easily as it does the Solstice.

Meanwhile, Buick dealerships demand better product. The hot selling Enclave is a hot selling Acadia. The Lucerne and LaCrosse are a bit past their sell by date. GM refuses to bring over the badass Park Avenue products that the Chinese get.

I think Buick is screwed...and Pontiac isn't far behind. GMC may be pointless, but it's in better shape than Buick or Pontiac. If they sell Hummer, then they will need another truck brand to market real off road vehicles (be it a new Blazer/Jimmy line or what).

[vette61]

I Vote Yes,although I Have Always Liked Pontiac,i Don't Like The Fact That Everytime Chevy Gets A Car Pontiac Wants It. I Don't Think That The Idea Of Pontiac Being The "performance" Division Works. Chevy Is The Better Choice For Being A Performance Division. Also The Fact That The G8 Sport Truck Should Have Been A Chevy El Camino Really Shows The Stupidity That Gm Sometimes Displays. The Soltice Should Be An Entry Level Chevy Sports Car the Brand That Needs The Most Attention Now Is Chevrolet. It Needs To Go Back To Its Roots As A Brand That Has Something For Everyone. It Worked Well Up Until The Eighties. The Lineup Chevy Had In The 60's Is Arguably The Best Lineup A Car Company Ever Had. Get Rid Of Pontiac And Bring Chevy Back To Its Number One Position.

[eaton53]

The thing is that Saturn is taking the place of Pontiac and Buick on brand level- sorty of sporty, sort of upscale.

The thing is, very few people are buying into the upscale Saturn. So get rid of it.
Saab has always been a money loser. So get rid of it.

Pontiac has a much wider dealer network... Holden / Opel will do much better there.
But maybe they could just change the signs and sell them as Holdens and Opels instead of Pontiacs?

Now we have just 3 channels...
Chevrolet
Cadillac
Holden / Opel / Buick

Holden / Opel / Buick don't have any U.S. specific cars, nor do they share anything with Chevy or Caddy.

[Stéphane Dumas]

Originally Posted by kenman923

Either Ceberus or Tata, of course.

Currently Cerberus had their hands full with Chrysler. Then there might be another player from India who could eye Saab like Mahindra or there was once some old rumors from 2005 about Renault who was interested to Saab http://ezinearticles.com/?Renault-Ey...Saab&id=114248
(it's doubtful then Renault is currently interested to Saab but who knows?)

[dindak]

Cutting divisions kills market share but killing GMC with an almost identicle line up with Chevy could be axed with little sadness.

[neshapop]

Kill Chevy and declare bankruptcy?

Dilbert’s pointy hear boss has very high position somewhere at GM hierarchy.

All joking aside I would kill two brands, Saturn and GMC. All those models can be easily transplanted to other brands, sort of reverse re-badge engineering.

[Caleb02]

well i say this... GM has way too many divisions......Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GM Daewoo, GMC, Holden, Hummer, Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn and Vauxhall. Granted GM killed off GEO and Oldsmobile. But does GM really need 12 divisons or name plates? Gm really needs to do this.

Kill Chevy and make all they Chevy models GMC models. This will give the GM name more advertising. Gm has wanted that since for the last few years GM has been placing GM badges on all it's offerings. This is also like Ford, Toyota, Honda and all do with thier major brands...

Kill off Saturn, no need big mistake to create Saturn in the first place, just make better offerings and we will purchase them. I also refuse to purchase a Saturn as its logo looks like the explosion from the space shuttle in the late 1980's. I find the logo very disrespectfull to our Nasa pioneers.

Kill off Hummer, It has a sexual meaning to it anyway and has a bad rep, green is in hummer is out.... besides whats the difference between gmc and hummer none... just a body kit of a gmc which is a body kit of a chevy.

kill off pontiac, just a clone of chevy

kill off european brands all of them

make the new GMC the international brand

make buick a ultra high end lexus fighter

make caddy a Porscha fighter with new age green tech performance to fight off porscha and its 4 door sports car. and kill the caddy gmt platform esclade is not a caddy its just a caddy trying to be a playa pimp. After all do we need a guy thats in his 60's looking like a pimp? Here is one example of an esclade owner....

Next get rid of holden, just a clone of its european brands....

Keep Pontiac and make them into Knight Rider cars....

Next make all cars in india and china as it is cheaper to make them out of the usa. America has become a service economy and not a manufacturing one. We have changed gears once again like when we were a farming economy then an industrial one and now a service economy....

[srd275]

I am not sure what GM is going to do. But cutting more divisions in hopes that will make things better isn't going to work long term.

You don't keep cutting and cutting and cutting your way to success.

I think cutting any of the Buick Pontiac GMC group is nuts. Those dealers are too intertwined. Each to some degree complements the other. What thoses dealers need is unique products (mainly on the car lineup) that Chevy and the other US brands don't get. Cars like the G8.

Granted everyone is ultra touchy about fuel prices, but like what happend in the early 80's, things changed. Do you really think everyone 5 years from now is going to want just fuel miserly cars. Variety is the spice of life.

If Gm were cut any of thoese divisions, it would be like cutting your nose off to spite yourself.

Sales will return, but not in the Truck based enviroment as before. That is why Gm was smart to close the 4 assembly plants.

Chevy makes fine products. But not everyone will want a Chevy, that is where the other divisions come in.

[eaton53]

Vauxhall and Daewoo = Opel, Holden and Chevy? Get rid of 'em!
GM = 5 brands worldwide. Opel, Holden, Buick, Chevy, Cadillac.

[Ming]

Ditch GMC and Pontiac and get the drama over with. I say this as a big Pontiac fan and it saddens me. GMC, however has a puny "fan" base since anyone who knows anything about cars knows GMC is the Chevy Trucks rebadge brand. Any perceived differences are mostly psychological. Few have ever insisted with success that it is the other way around. Pontiac, on the other hand has had some infusion of innovation and effort over this past 10 years, but had too many flops like the Aztek, or luke-warm successes like the Vibe, while long-time Pontiac fans were too long denied the kind of affordable RWD performance they once clamored for.

Think of all of the ad money budgeted for the two brands that can be saved on top of the costs of developing all of those Pontiac nameplates and ways for GMC to try to stand out here or there.

If gas prices were $1.50, I'd be in line for a Holden-built Pontiac myself, but times, and gas prices have changed.

Saturn is positioned right where it needs to be product-wise, and if GM cannot succeed with small cars at Saturn, they are in big trouble and they know it. So I expect them to keep trying to breathe life into Saturn. But I don't think cutting GMC will be a bold enough move. I expect Pontiac will follow.

Maybe that means a Chevy El Camino after all...?

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by Ming

Saturn is positioned right where it needs to be product-wise, and if GM cannot succeed with small cars at Saturn, they are in big trouble and they know it. So I expect them to keep trying to breathe life into Saturn. But I don't think cutting GMC will be a bold enough move. I expect Pontiac will follow.

Why bother with the rebadges? That just wastes engineering resources. Tool 'em up in N. America and sell them with their original nameplates.

Unlike Saturn and Pontiac, Opel and Holden don't have any stigmas associated to them. The only Opel anyone remembers is the Manta and people think they're pretty cool.

[gardnet1]

Originally Posted by Flyingbunnys

I stopped reading around page 6 but I think I got enough to toss in my 2 cents. So, here we go this is my oppenion.

PS. Does GM really need Vauxhall?

Vauxhall is just the name Opel sells vehicles in the UK under. 100% mirror image of Opel with just the names changed. An old name that is cherished by the English. You wouldn't save a dime getting rid of it.

[Caleb02]

what gm is thinking clearly....

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by gardnet1

Vauxhall is just the name Opel sells vehicles in the UK under. 100% mirror image of Opel with just the names changed. An old name that is cherished by the English. You wouldn't save a dime getting rid of it.

Aren't they also rebadged Holdens?
That would be 3 different rebadges for Opels and Holdens... also aren't Opels Chevys in Latin America?

Jeez... stop the madness and just call them Opels and Holdens everywhere!!