UAW Strikes Against GM!

[joemac]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

I do make a decent wage, who says I don't? You? The UAW? I live my life just fine, thank you. I've had more education than 90% of the UAW assemblers, and they didn't get their wages because they earned them, I did.

...and now you have a sense of entitlement because you've done more? I'm sure that's the exact same thing some in the UAW are thinking as well. Some have dependably done the same job for years with solid quality results (reference Harbor and Initial Quality results).

The UAW workers make almost twice the National wage. How is that fair or just when you consider what teachers, policemen, firefighter and doctors make. Tightening a bolt isn't worth $26 an hour and there's no way to justify that.

Just goes to show you what a sad state of affairs our country is in when those professions are paid so little. BUT without Americans making good solid wages, how are governments suppose to increase the salaries or retain the people in the professions (excluding doctors) you mention? Those tax dollars have to come from somewhere, people making $50k a year pay more taxes than someone making $20k. Again there is a bigger picture here than singling out UAW wages.

If suddenly UAW members make $20k a year, how many billions just evaporated from our economy? Now many billions in tax revenue just disappeared? Who gets to fund those tax deficiencies? Well those suckers of us that are still making a decent wage. Again it's in the interest of all Americans that jobs stay here and wages stay strong.

[steverino]

Originally Posted by jckjds

I wonder which plants/facilities are affected at this point?

GM should take this opportunity to hire replacements and break the union, IMO. I seriously doubt that will happen, but hey, the fight's on, so why not take full advantage.

GM, rid yourself of the union for good, get back to being competitive.

With 7%+ unemployment in Michigan, should not be to hard to replace 30,000+ workers. Hell, 5,000 turned out for 300+ jobs at a new Walmart, imagine how many GM could get at $18/hr

[Clownzilla]

Originally Posted by joemac

Just goes to show you what a sad state of affairs our country is in when those professions are paid so little. BUT without Americans making good solid wages, how are governments suppose to increase the salaries or retain the people in the professions you mention? Those tax dollars have to come from somewhere, people making $50k a year pay more taxes than someone making $20k. Again there is a bigger picture here than singling out UAW wages.

If suddenly UAW members make $20k a year, how many billions just evaporated from our economy? Now many billions in tax revenue just disappeared? Who gets to fund those tax deficiencies? Well those suckers of us that are still making a decent wage. Again it's in the interest of all Americans that jobs stay here and wages stay strong.

Those tax dollars will be paid elsewhere. Like all the non-union car dealers that sell more vehicles at higher prices due to the competitive labor structure of the factories.

[HoosierRon]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

Hint: what you make has nothing to do with fairness in a capitalist system.

Hint: if you don't like it, move to a non-capitalist country. Cuba. China. North Korea. Iran. Take your pick.

[member12]

Originally Posted by joemac

\

If suddenly UAW members make $20k a year, how many billions just evaporated from our economy? Now many billions in tax revenue just disappeared? Who gets to fund those tax deficiencies? Well those suckers of us that are still making a decent wage. Again it's in the interest of all Americans that jobs stay here and wages stay strong.

I like to think that GM employees would get the same pay or a raise if the UAW was eliminated.

Right now they are trying to lower health care cost....the company just wants to earn money. The real unfair thing is this jobs bank, which can't be touched.

If GM can get those leaches off it's back, then they can afford to give bonuses and hire the right people and spend more on product developent.

That said, if GM reaches a favorable agreement and doesn't invest in product (increasing demand for their cars and their employees), then I will be furious. With every CSV built I get a little more pissed off at the Union. If they bend, then I will have no choice but to shifty my frustration with management for mis-spending their money.

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Hint: if you don't like it, move to a non-capitalist country. Cuba. China. North Korea. Iran. Take your pick.

How about terrible, poverty-striken places such as Germany, Sweden, France, etc. Jeez the six weeks of paid vacation would be pure torture.

[member12]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Hint: if you don't like it, move to a non-capitalist country. Cuba. China. North Korea. Iran. Take your pick.

Just FYI....China's growth right now is because of capitalism.

[Clownzilla]

Originally Posted by member12

Just FYI....China's growth right now is because of capitalism.

That's very true! A growing capitalist structure with workers that take pride in what they build (Buick is a good example). Kind of like the United States decades ago. Sure, their government still has major issues, but China would LOVE to build (with passion and care) GM's products.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by joemac

Simple terms. If the union didn't exist. A vast majority of the plants and employment would be outside of the USA. Why would GM stop short at simply non-Union wages. Take it a take it a step further setup shop in Mexico and have a 1/6th of the wage overhead. Thus if you previously worked at a domestic assembly plant you could one or several of the following: A chose not to go back to work, B file unemployment, C fill out job applications. Being the best plant worker in America doesn't keep a person employed in the domestic auto industry.

The impact is much bigger than just UAW workers and plants. The numerous suppliers and industries that enable the assembly process are huge! Nearly 7 million Americans in some way shape or form are employed in the domestic auto industry. Think of all the companies that supply services, materials, and components. The implications are much bigger than the UAW and GM alone. This is big, much bigger an hourly salary rate, in terms of what this could mean for our country’s economic health.

I wonder why Toyota, Hyundai and Everyone else builds cars in Non Union plants right here in the USA?

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

Again, you are a very indigent person due to your low salary. You shouldn't take it personally that wiser people use legal means to negotiate higher pay.

Legal for now. From what I understand GM could hire scabs, thats how the Detroit Newspapers pretty much broke their Union a few years back.

Also capitalism isn't fair, but neither is socialism.

At least in capitalism people tend to be rewarded for doing a good job.

In socialism everyone is rewarded and equally, so there is NO REASON to work hard.

Unions like Communism are great theories, but in practice they are warped by GREED and POWER.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by Clownzilla

Sure, union negotiations like this are legal, but they are far from wise. Unions are digging their own graves by doing this crap.

It is kind of hard not to notice that GM is going bust. Enjoy the entitlements while they last.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

How about terrible, poverty-striken places such as Germany, Sweden, France, etc. Jeez the six weeks of paid vacation would be pure torture.

That's about the only good thing they have going, that and catastrophic healthcare.

But with that they have a whole host of other problems.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

Again, you are a very indigent person due to your low salary. You shouldn't take it personally that wiser people use legal means to negotiate higher pay.

Why should I care if you think my salary is low? Or even if it is low. I love my job, and if I'm not happy with the pay, I can leave. I shouldn't, however, force a work stoppage on my boss and grab a cardboard sign demanding I either get paid more or they lose money. I'm not taking it personally, I just wish the UAW would disappear with the rest of the dinosaurs. Entitlement is not a value I can stand behind. Earn what you make, people, don't force your employer over a work stoppage.

BTW, those thinking along your train of thought appear to be outnumbered here at GMI. The writing is on the wall; too bad the UAW members can't read that.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

That's about the only good thing they have going, that and catastrophic healthcare. But with that they have a whole host of other problems.

The European Union economy is attributable to growth in the former east block countries which is propping up counties like Germany and France with high unemployment and stagnant growth (due in part to their more socialist business systems).

[OKsweetrides]

Joemac, you've never talked to many of those people from the European countries have you.
1) The socialist and isolationist leanings of those governments have caused massive economic problems for those countries. After talking with some actual real live Europeans, their attitude is this:
Why work when 6 out of every 10 hours goes to feed the government? Why struggle to eek out a tiny percentage more when you can parasite off the rest like everybody else does?
That same environment does little to appease the growing immigration problems those countries have from poorer countries, when the Euro countries themselves don't have enough jobs to support them all, namely France and Germany.
2) The isolationism and pro-socialist attitude that unionization seeks only works in a closed economy, but how's a closed economy going to work when you've got FAR more people to support than your country can provide for by itself? Want to be like North Korea and be closed off? MOVE THERE.
You have to go and trade with other countries. This creates a dialog with other countries (shocking, I know).
3) You want cheaper prices from your Wal-Marx and the like, so how can they lower costs when the standard of living here in the U.S. of A is such that you enjoy your beer sitting in air conditioning watching football gams on a Sunday? I'll tell you how, by finding cheaper labor, and cheaper materials. That translates to going to the overseas countries (far lower S. of Living than here). This creates wealth in that country, and we are happy with cheap products across the board yay! Well eventually in the grand old scheme of things, things begin to equalize across the board. You can't sustain such a high standard of living with out extraordinary costs. It's a law of nature that things migrate towards equilibrium across the board. This is great for China, India, Africa, etc. but not great for us, they are going up, but at the expense of us, it's what WE AS CONSUMERS WANTED. You think there's an infinite amount of money in the world? Well there is with inflation, but in actuality, theres not, it gets shifted around the world with the tides of business.

Remember kiddies: if the masses want something, someone else has to make it, market it, and sell it.


Ya, I guess if you aspire to live at the bare edge of existence and are content with never having aspirations to attain more then, sure, Germany, France and the like are fantastic! 6 weeks paid vacation of ritzing it up in the old Soviet Bloc!

I'd rather work and be happy with a low wage, knowing that it's my effort rather than whine moan and groan like a 2 yr. old who doesn't get their way. But who am I kidding, it's for personal honor and satisfaction.

Unions have lost their vision and sight. They've gone from safety and justified logic to outright greed and laziness.