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So When Do We Start Worrying About the Camaro?

17K views 205 replies 71 participants last post by  NeverEnough 
#1 ·


<strong>April numbers are out for both <a href="http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f12/april-2016-sales-gm-s-retail-sales-rise-12th-consecutive-month-248929/" target="_blank">GM</a> and <a href="http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f37/april-2016-sales-ford-delivers-best-april-u-s-retail-sales-10-years-248921/" target="_blank">Ford</a>, meaning it's time for another look at the Camaro versus Mustang sales race.</strong>

The Camaro struggled in the early parts of 2016 as supply was slowly building, but with 4 months now in the books and the warm weather season just about here supply shouldn't really be an issue.

In April Chevrolet sold 7,457 Camaros, which is up 7.9 percent year over year. Year-to-date there have been 26,038 Camaros sold in the USA, which is up 7.5 percent year over year.

Compare that with Ford Mustang sales: 12,726 cars sold in April 2016, however it's down 3.2 percent year over year. YTD Ford has moved 42,955 Mustangs, down 0.2 versus this point last year.

Just what is holding the Camaro back in the sales race? Personally I find the 6th gen to be a handsome car, one that makes the 5th gen look cartoonish and clunky side-by-side.

Yes Camaro has posted impressive YoY numbers when compared with both the Mustang and even the <a href="http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f37/april-2016-sales-fiat-chrysler-reports-best-april-sales-since-2005-a-248913/" target="_blank">Challenger</a>-- but do keep in mind that across 2015 Camaro sales were down in anticipation of the new model.

Is sticker shock entirely to blame, with many V6 Camaros going for Mustang GT money, is it possible pony car shoppers are taking their money elsewhere?
 
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#57 ·
What about all the people that are in the process of being hired for 3rd shift; should they worry?

Sales are up year to year and year to date - what's to worry about?
Camaro was down 10% last year, so beating last year isn't that much to write home about......


???? If a more expensive car isn't selling at more than it ever has you're going to start to worry? How charitable of you. You realize you're talking about annualized sales of 110k-120k a car that sold maybe 90k at its peak last gen?
Based on the first 4 months, and considering they were selling 2 Camaro's at the beginning of the year; they will be lucky to hit 80K.
 
#103 ·
This usually happens to me as well.

A) Michael, I guarantee you and nasty email from GM is incoming to your box.

B) I'm going to restate this until someone at GM gets it tattooed to their forehead.

Two things:

1) Styling

2) Cost

GM, fix those. Mustang is eating your lunch!!!!
A) :lmao:
B) Personally, I think the looks are good. The price however, is quite off-putting.

????

90,000 peak? uh no. Camaro sold 130,000 units in 2010 and 106,000 in 2011.

source: http://blog.caranddriver.com/warnin...aro-vs-mustang-sales-numbers-in-living-color/
*Checks my source Uh, no. I don't know where Car & Liar got their stats, but they are a bit inflated. http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01/chevrolet-camaro-sales-figures.html I don't believe that the other markets where the Camaro was sold could come up with an additional 48K units.

I expect this kind of manufactured, click-bait, straw man sensationalism from fool.com, but not GMI. We're now officially no better than the sites we've all criticized around here for years.
Agreed. It's too early for doom & gloom over a car that launched less than 6 months ago. Unless the sales went into the tank, nobody would be sweating.

You are too young to have lived through the 4th Gen fiasco. All over the internet, and in magazines, the Camaro destroyed the Mustang. In day to day livability, nope. It died on the vine. A great performing car that noone purchased. Instead, they purchased the far inferior Mustang.................. which was far superior in livability, and cheaper.

Sound familiar??
I still own several magazines from the Camaro's 4th gen era. The car mags tended to run stories about the most powerful models. I think I remember maybe 2 articles about the lower priced V6 models. The V8 articles tended to rave about the performance & value of the Camaro, while saying that the Mustang came up just a little short on performance. The V6 articles, well, I kind of skipped over them. :lmao:
 
#6 ·
I'm wondering if this would be an appropriate place to use the Lincoln argument, you know, the one where people point out a high percentage of gain over almost nothing is still almost nothing?

If V6 Camaro pricing is legitimately in Mustang GT range then yes, it's time to worry. On the other hand remember Camaro shares it's platform with the other two Alpha cars so they'll prop it up!! Oh, wait....

In all seriousness though, it is more than a little surprising that it's not building any real momentum yet. I think price and the fact that it too closely resembles the old car are a one two punch that will be tough to overcome.
 
#7 ·
Michael, I guarantee you and nasty email from GM is incoming to your box.

I'm going to restate this until someone at GM gets it tattooed to their forehead.

Two things:

1) Styling

2) Cost

GM, fix those. Mustang is eating your lunch!!!!
 
#15 ·
Worry??? What's to worry?
Mustangs have nearly ALWAYS outsold Camaros ---- it is NOT a sales unit race between these two.
Mustang (most volume) is and always has been a "secretary's car".
Camaro has ALWAYS appealed more to the "enthusiast".
Camaros are simply a sportier car: handles better, drives better, faster model for model.
Just finished a 2100 mile cruise through the Ozarks with a 2016 Camaro SS and a 2016 Camaro RS and a few older models. Simply AWESOME performance.
Styling is subjective, I LOVE the road presence of the new Camaro.
So don't fret, You want to drive the sales queen or the BEST?
 
#113 ·
I'm with you on this one. These vehicles need to progress and be at the top of their game, unless they want to lose market share to foreign companies who will gladly pick up the slack. On the other hand, I'm not sure I can agree the Mustang is as bad as you claim.
 
#9 ·
too early to be worried IMO....If Camaro isn't at 9,500-10,000 sales a month by the end of the June I will start to worry. Until then nah....

Camaro doesn't need to outsell Mustang to be successful....Like others have mentioned, with the price increase on Camaro it doesn't need to sell as much as Mustang (again just my opinion). if it sells more than Mustang that's gravy and would give GM great bragging rights. :yup:
 
#11 ·
I would bet Joe Lunchbucket sees zero difference between 5th gen and 6th gen (seldom seeing them side by side) and figures they are just asking more $$$ for the same ol'.
Also wonder if the sales people at the dealerships just aren't fired up about it enough to really extol its virtues. Or maybe sitting next to a Malibu Premier for $36K they can't justify shelling out more for a nicely equipped Camaro that has zero rear leg room a visibility issue and a miniscule trunk? Not saying the customer sets out to cross shop these 2 cars but seeing them side by side in the showroom may cause a reality check to set in.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Not side stepping a thing. That's not my style.

Let me make this clear. GM wants the Camaro to outsell Mustang. That's what it has ALWAYS been about, that's what it will ALWAYS be about.

$45,000 V6 Camaros sitting on dealer lots won't make money for GM. Outselling Mustang will.
$45k V6?!??! Where, Canada? A fully loaded 2LT Camaro with the V6 and 8 speed with a few select options is right under $40k without the big brakes. Care to guess what the Ecoboost Mustang can get to?!?! Pricing the EB Premium Mustang with a few select options takes it to $38k!!!! Where is the outrage?!?!?!

Once again, why does GM HAVE to outsell the Mustang?

Answering that question is an exercise in futility though because GM was setup to fail from day zero due to the Mustang being sold around the world. Camaro will not outsell the Mustang so why force the Camaro down peoples throat and lose money on them? Why are cheerleading for that?
 
#14 ·
IMHO I believe "JOE consumer" out there sees the Camaro on the LOT and assumes at is a nose+tail job on the OLD ZETA car and at that point the V6 for V8 money kicks in and the GT gets another sale

I have seen ZERO advertising for the NEW Camaro and NOTHING to point out it is BASICALLY a BMW-in-muscle-car-clothing

I do believe a smaller V8 SS-lite for GT money would do a LOT for sales # and IMAGE of being expensive

I firmly believe even if strippers do NOT sell well they are important in getting people to LOOK at the product beyond an internet search
 
#16 ·
If you look that Dodge sold 6,412 Challengers (-5%) and Chevy sold 7,457 Camaros (+7.9) and Ford sold 12,726 Mustangs (-3.2%) what does that say?

I think the Camaro is doing fine with it's target audience and pulling some sales from Dodge and Ford. Somewhat expected for the newest car but it indicates a successful replacement of the previous model.

The Mustang is just more successful overall because it's still the pony car with the widest appeal. Chevy seems to have blended the Camaro more toward what a Muscle Car was. The performance is clearly there but how many more sales that brings in might be somewhat limited.

Challenger is a different animal. Bigger and more livable and that works for it.
 
#17 ·
What's the problem with sales. Ever look back at history of the sales of the Camaro? 70k+ year is great. Don't devalue the car just because your rival is selling more. Lets see in a year or two how many are on the used car lots. If GM is making money that's all that matters. Selling more than your competitor but not making a profit means nothing.

Someone at GM is finally looking at the bottom line not the amount of market share. Yes market share is great but if you can sale and make a good profit that's what really matters.
 
#21 ·
Styling is hurting the car.
Not American looking enough. Too soft; lost its edge.
 
#24 ·
My understanding is that the 2.0T is just hitting the dealers now. That's the most affordable Camaro; I've got to think not having that car available would hurt volume. I don't think the 1LE or ZL1 are available yet; when the magazines can test them (which they will) that will give some additional profile for the Camaro. The launch of the Shelby GT350 has given a lot of great publicity for the Mustang. Most people won't be interested in these focused and more expensive variants, but they keep the car front and centre for the enthusiasts who buy them.

I'm actually surprised that the Mustang is selling at 12K a month. Given the compromises involved in owning a pony car, that's pretty impressive. It's perhaps less a question of why is the Camaro selling so few (as it seems roughly in line with what it's traditionally sold, given that it doesn't have the full line) but how in the heck is Ford selling so many Mustangs?
 
#25 ·
It's perhaps less a question of why is the Camaro selling so few (as it seems roughly in line with what it's traditionally sold, given that it doesn't have the full line) but how in the heck is Ford selling so many Mustangs?
Ford does a much better job of serving fleet customers (primarily the rental segment) with Mustang than GM does with Camaro.
 
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#27 · (Edited)
I'd worry if the Camaro were slower than the Mustang.
That ain't gonna happen anytime soon.

But hey... Mustang Guy and Camry Guy can hold hands and kumbaya about their sales together. :friday:
 
#28 ·
The Camaro has been widely available with all engines and in all configurations for less than two months, and we're already penning stories about whether or not the car's sales are something to worry about? And based on the numbers provided by the thread's creator, sales are within the range that has been established as normal for this time of year, so it's worthy of our panic?

I expect this kind of manufactured, click-bait, straw man sensationalism from fool.com, but not GMI. We're now officially no better than the sites we've all criticized around here for years.
 
#35 ·
Outside of the silly Chevy/Ford rivalry thing, who cares which car sells more. If Camaro sales are up and are healthy, that's all that matters.

None of us are privy to what level of sales GM needs.
 
#77 ·
If Camaro sales are up and are healthy, that's all that matters.
Up from the 1st quarter sales of 2015 which is the worst since 2010. That makes 2016, the 2nd worst quarter since 2010.
I tabulated the first 4 months of Camaro sales numbers going back to 2010 and it looks like this:

Through April

2010- 29,907
2011- 30,824
2012- 31,551
2013- 27,147
2014- 28,611
2015- 24,229
2016- 26,038

While the Camaro tries to catch up in domestic sales, Ford is a step ahead by entering the global market (now the best selling coupe globally). Is GM planning something already?
 
#37 ·
As for inventory not being a problem anymore, I'm not so sure. The inventory at four local Chevy dealers is very poor. I check daily.

The good news is that they all have fewer cars than they used to. So they did sell those.

But the bad news is that everything they have around here, with the exception of a stray blue or gray model here and there, seems to be either red or black, with a black interior. Very, very little variety.
 
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#38 · (Edited)
My general view is that you need 12 months of sales for existing nameplates and 2 years of sales for new nameplates to determine success or failure.

I think it's going to be very difficult for Camaro to outsell Mustang with a price hike, and Mustang simply has wider appeal (not to mention it sells globally).
 
#44 ·
I've seen one Kalahari; it was great. I've seen a couple of red interiors. Everything else, black. Nothing but black.

I don't want a black interior in a Camaro. I won't even look at those. Inventory in the Pittsburgh area is terrible. Could be that warm weather cities get a better selection early in the year. Hopefully this will soon change.
 
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